The Index thread (please keep to subject)

RuneSR2 said:

Tried the Moondust Knuckles tech demo (more like several mini-games) and it's really amazing:

That was the first thing I went do after watching the streamers play it. It really makes you appreciate the Index controllers capability but also hopeful that more games will support the grab function. 

MowTin said:

RuneSR2 said:

Got the usb-c converter cable in (no pun intended) and connected the Rift HMD and booted the rig. Started the Oculus desktop app, and the CV1 HMD was not detected, sigh. Tried again, took out the cables and reconnected them again - started device setup - and voila:

 Wait, what USB-c connector cable did you use? Every one I tried created static or disconnects. 

This one from Sandberg, has 5 years of warranty, kinda convinced me of the quality, maybe...

https://sandberg.it/en-us/product/USB-C-to-USB-3.0-Converter

I'm getting a usb3 (type c) hub with on/off switches delivered tomorrow, let's see how that goes. But I tried rebooting 3 times continously using CV1 and the type c converter cable, and got the hmd correctly detected each time - but I didn't have Steam running.

@RuneSR2  Ohhh...I thought you had USB-c to displayport or HDMI. It seems like a waste to use a USB-c port for a single USB 3.0 input. 

Valve has the VirtualLink cable--one cable to unite them all. But it's sold out.

MowTin said:

@RuneSR2  Ohhh...I thought you had USB-c to displayport or HDMI. It seems like a waste to use a USB-c port for a single USB 3.0 input. 

Valve has the VirtualLink cable--one cable to unite them all. But it's sold out.

Right now my USB3-c port isn't used for anything (according the MSI it's "VR-Ready"), so I'm hoping to use it for CV1. I think the VirtualLink cable will be back soon. VirtualLink would require a RTX video card as far as I know. Maybe later ;-)
BTW, VirtualLink may increase the burden on the PSU, since you no longer need external power for the Index - may not be a problem if you got a great PSU with watts to spare, but may be something to consider in other scenarios. Then again, I can't find any info on the Index power draw - may not be much, but must be more than other HMDs only needing an USB3 port (the old Vive was just 6 watts - but that was oled:  https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/51ir1h/vive_power_draw_test_results/ )

RuneSR2 said:

More cyberpiloting in Wolfie - officially this game does not support the Rift - but I'm convinced that Valve Index will be supported  ;) Game launches July 26 (in 6 weeks) - for $20.

https://youtu.be/rTY-TWIfRkE

Just bought the game - and the reviews are quite right, it's extremely blurry. 

Seems like most of the reviewers on Steam were unable to fix the blurriness. Even setting all details to Ultra didn't cure the blurriness. But something that helps is to deactivate auto-resolution - although that's not going to be enough. Seems like many have forgotten how we get blurry games to become super-crisp and sharp in VR - of course we add some super-sampling. Using 200% resolution in Steam, the game looks great, nearly as great as Doom VFR - unfortunately there's a big catch, cause now I'll need that RTX 3180 Ti Super-Duper-Extreme-Edition for my 90 Hz using the Index. Lowering res to 150% was better, but I'm getting far from 90 fps - I read that using a 2080 Ti (Index) in 90 Hz anything above 120% didn't work well. 
Getting the balance right isn't easy. Dropping all graphics settings from Ultra to Low didn't help, diasbling motion smoothing in Steam may have helped a bit - still wasn't able to get 90 fps in 90 Hz 120% (or 100%) res. Seems Ultra settings is more or less free, while super sampling res is the main problem - and cause of extreme blurriness. 

Not sure what the game is about - I'm spending all my time trying to get acceptable performance - I have two hours to get it right, or I'm refunding this. 

My guess of what happened at Bethesda: "Dick, we've completed the PSVR version, you have a great PC with 2080 Ti, can you make a PCVR port quickly? Just get it to run acceptable, nothing fancy, just so our PC fans don't feel left out".

Btw just connected this hub:


Started the rig, stopped Steam from starting, turned on the CV1 connection on the hub, got a nice sound from Windows indicating something had been successfully detected, started the Oculus app - and the HMD was perfectly detected. Maybe this is the best way to have two HMDs connected to one rig - turning the CV1 on whenever needed, and having it deactivated when using Index. With a hub like this there's no need to switch cables on the back of the rig. 
Did try some more good ol CV1 games, loved to see some pure blacks again - CV1 is really pitch black compared to the Index, especially in apps like Discovering Space 2 - but also when you get a black screen inside the HMD. 
Fun thing, the Oculus Desktop app can't see "Revive", thus Revived games I played using Index get updated in the Oculus app as if I had played them on the CV1. 
Many games don't work (correctly/optimally) using Revive, so I do feel the need to have the opportunity to use the real thing. That said, I can now see the bad CV1 res everywhere - and also the SDE - I kept thinking today how I could have enjoyed the CV1 for so many years with this kind of image quality. So beware, once you leave the CV1 and get used to higher res and more reduced SDE, there may be no way back. That also means there's no way I'm gonna try the Reverb, love the Index as it is, lol. 

https://uploadvr.com/virtuallink-index-cancelled/

Oops

Techy111 said:

https://uploadvr.com/virtuallink-index-cancelled/

Oops

I'd blame Nvidia and their RTX prices - and stability issues may go both ways who knows, lol - maybe a good idea to paste Valve's comment (it's not me shouting, it's in capital on the website):

"FOR MULTIPLE TECHNICAL REASONS WE NO LONGER BELIEVE THAT THE PRODUCT WOULD DELIVER THAT ADDED CONVENIENCE. FOREMOST ON THAT LIST IS RELIABILITY. OUR CURRENT TESTING INDICATES THE VR CONNECTION MAY FAIL TO ESTABLISH IN A RELIABLE MANNER. ADDITIONALLY, VIRTUAL LINK TECHNOLOGY HAS NOT BEEN WIDELY ADOPTED BY MANUFACTURERS, LAPTOPS IN PARTICULAR (WHERE A SINGLE CONNECTION COULD BE THE MOST BENEFICIAL), TRANSLATING TO VERY FEW PCS HAVING VIABLE PORTS FOR THE CONNECTION."

I think technical issues are the main reason - MowTin already wrote he had trouble getting VirtualLink to work. 
But of course we could do the math too - if 5% of gamers have RTX cards, and 1% of those own an Index, and 1% of those are willing to pay $40 + shipping for a VirtualLink cable... the number we may end up with may be extremely low (and I think I've been generous estimating those percentages).

With the lose of the Virtual Link support its hard to see where Valve / INDEX is positioning itself after its initial launch. Sounds like they may be ploughing their own furrow, but again with such a small team in Valve its seem this is on a slow burn trajectory in their estimations. 

RuneSR2 said:

And how about Wolfie? (we have guests staying over, haven't had time for Index in more the 24 hours and probably won't have any time also today, sigh)

https://youtu.be/tYsrTPhcY04 ;

Bethesda, you're forgiven, but not forgotten   ;) Click to enlarge images. 



Had a blast last night - or dare I say a great "Nazi barbecue" :blush: (poor souls, maybe they didn't want the job as a soldier and the last thing they saw was my PanzerHund)



The first error you can make in Wolfie Cyber is thinking "I need 90+ fps", then you may just stop there unless you have a 2080 Ti. But it's not bad - I usually get 90 fps res 100% all other in-game graphic settings maxed (=Ultra).  

Textures aren't bad though:



Most important thing is to turn off automatic resolution scaling in-game. Problem is that Wolfie now defaults to something that still looks like res 70% (or looks like having liquid butter drops in your eyes). What is needed is to open SteamVR and to set Cyberpilot resolution to at least 100%. 
Even using the Index, super-crisp graphics need res 200% and there's no video card on this planet (available to consumers) that can do that in 90+ fps. I started playing the game, and I did get much ghosting due to double frames, but actually it was no big deal - I thought I was using 120% res, but later I found out I was using 150% res :blush:  
100% and 120% are quite blurry - I think 150% res is just about right. And that's using the Index, maybe you can get away with less using the CV1 due to the generous image magic of the CV1 SDE. 

Tom's Hardware measured better performance in a game when deactivating motion smoothing (ms) - so I deactivated ms in Cyberpilot:


In short: 150% res in Steam (100% will give you 90 fps most of the time using a GTX 1080, but it's still quite blurry) will provide nice image quality, deactivate auto-res scaling in-game, set foveated quality to 100 (just in case, I don't think it works if you haven't got the Vive Pro Eye) and set all other graphics setting to Ultra or whatever is the max. If you got a 2080 Ti you may be able to get 90 fps in res 120%. I haven't tried going for 60 fps in 120Hz or 72 fps in 144 Hz. 



The game looks awesome in Paris - this is probably the closest I've been to feeling being back in Half-Life 2 (City 17) - only now Nazis control everything. Using normal difficulty the battles may be too easy, but I like this kind of tourist mode :blush: 
The feeling when driving the battle mech is awesome too - I really noticed the Index' fov in this game, not just the vertical, but especially the horizontal fov. Normally horizontal fov in the CV1 ends where the frame on my glasses stop, but using the Index horizontal fov increases beyond the frame of my glasses (does that in other games too, but I really noticed it in Wolfie) - fov was really large, I nearly felt like having unrestricted fov.



I don't think you need a lot of cpu power for this game - I never experienced any trouble - if I enabled auto-res then I constantly got 90 fps (7700K). 

Wolfie isn't for everyone, you have to consider getting 90 fps res 100% (=blurry image quality) or getting better image quality at the cost of fps. I've gotten used to 150% using the Index, maybe 200% is possible using the CV1, I get 45 fps a lot, but I've got strong VR legs and don't mind it. $20  is ok with me - it must have taken the devs a lot of time creating the city.

My rating 7/10. I'm not refunding the game.