The Index thread (please keep to subject)

RuneSR2 said:

oldgamergazza said:

RuneSR2 said:

oldgamergazza said:

RuneSR2 said:

One of the devs behind Until You Fall - maybe by slip of the tongue - mentioned that Index support will be added to the game before the "next big platform push" in early October.
This has led to some speculation about what the dev meant by "next big platform push" - and it's no secret that Valve has been making promises and now there're just 4 months left of the year. I'll keep holding my breath ;)



BTW, also SteamVR beta 1.7.11 just arrived allowing column correction to be set to -10 (before -5 was max), and users on Reddit Valve Index have stated that this causes Index to be completely free of SDE. This indicates that apart from the glare, Index is now close to perfection - of course within the limits of the res and sound system. Lately it seems that users have gotten fully working Knuckles, maybe the Index really is ready for prime time - and then October might indeed be a great month for the next big push, we'll see.

Like one CV1 user who upgraded to Index wrote, even if he was really happy for the Index, he wouldn't recommend it to everyone. I fully agree - Index is more complicated than Rift(-S). Persons who just want to pick up the HMD and experience VR as easily as possible might be much better off using Rift-S. For enthusiast who don't mind changing settings and spending time getting several small - but important - settings optimally set up, Index may have little competition - and then there's the price to consider too. Last evening I spent some time going from CV1 to Index and back, and even in games like Galaxy Forces VR, where I previously found CV1 ss 2.0 quite sharp, the distance to Index SteamVR ss 200% was simply massive - and both HMDs worked in solid 90 fps on my system. But CV1 is much easier to use - and faster to start up. And no matter what you choose, it seems that Valve will offer whatever they plan to release to all kinds of PCVR HMDs.

Where s the Column setting?

Controls are available in-headset under Display Settings -> Advanced, but you have to use the SteamVR Beta version.

Thanks, that’s why I can’t find it, I don’t have any controllers, I use it for sim racing:( guess there are no other way of reaching this setting?

I think you can just use the mouse connected to your rig. Just start up SteamVR and you can see something like this on your desktop:



Now just press "SteamVR" using the mouse and get access to the settings, like:



The above pictures are from older versions of SteamVR, and you need the latest SteamVR Beta version. I don't recommend using the Beta unless you're very sure of what you're doing - also the Beta may expose you to more firmware upgrades which may not necessarily be a good thing. 
If you really need column correction and can't wait, of course SteamVR Beta can be awesome. Personally I don't mind waiting for a more thoroughly tested version.

Yes I can get to where the settings are, i just dont seem to have the advanced settings Tab!

oldgamergazza said:

Yes I can get to where the settings are, i just dont seem to have the advanced settings Tab!

And you're using the SteamVR Beta - should say something like 1.17.12 (not 1.16.10)?

As I'm not using the Beta, I'm a bit blind here, maybe you do need to be in the HMD - and then you do need some sort of controller to enable it, just found this explanation:

"In the headset, menu button, settings bottom right, display settings, advanced settings."

Can you activate these menus inside the HMD for example using an XBox controller or similar? I've only used Touch or Knuckles... 

This post seems rather silly - but maybe slightly funny too - and not completely unfounded, although Index does need some super sampling really to shine...

The new updated version of The Lab contains many secrets - here's some inspiration if needed (note these pictures contain a massive amount of spoilers):

https://imgur.com/a/DT75Sn4

It's better than the rift for sure. Not sure about Rift S without SBS testing. And the difference between the Index and Reverb again is hard. I think the Reverb is in its own league TBF, but then you have to deal with the other negatives. If it's pure resolution gain you're after then Reverb all the way.

Shadowmask72 said:

It's better than the rift for sure. Not sure about Rift S without SBS testing. And the difference between the Index and Reverb again is hard. I think the Reverb is in its own league TBF, but then you have to deal with the other negatives. If it's pure resolution gain you're after then Reverb all the way.

HP Reverb Gen 2 is out soon. They have fixed the flickering screens the cable disconnect and the lines some people reported seeing. The controllers look shite, but in time I'm hoping to pair some controllers with the Base stations if I can. I play a lot of sims though, so I was going to use HP Reverb for them and also see what the HTC Cosmos is like.

RuneSR2 said:

And some semi-sexy shots, it's Saturday  ;)

If the woman has more hair on her body (unless it's her head) than I do then it's a massive pass when it comes to "sexy shots". Let her be good at what she does without bringing sexy into it okay?

RedRizla said:

@RuneSR2 - Does the Valve index look much better then the Rift S display? I found when I had the Rift S and compared it to Oculus CV1, the only difference I saw was clearer text and no godrays in the Rift S. Apart from that everything looked pretty much the same as Oculus CV1. Everything still looked blurred on Rift S at distance like on the CV1. So what do you reckon? Does index look much better then Rift S?

The main thing I'm looking for is a good clear view and that's why I'm thinking of getting the HP Reverb.

Maybe these shots aren't that bad, I've shown them also in the Reverb thread. Although Index looks really sharp in the HMD - but you can clearly see the (lack of) SDE in all the HMDs - click to enlarge - so don't focus on the letters, focus on the SDE ;)



More shots from Tyriel Wood:



Does look like the Index I know - as seen again it's very hard to spot the SDE using Reverb or Index.  

I have not tried Rift-S, the 80 Hz, no-IPD, no proper sound and the inside-out tracking weren't anything that I liked compared to the CV1. But I guess you can say that the Index improves all aspects of the CV1 - the res - the fov - the refresh rates - the sound (CV1 wins when it comes to bass, but the Index sound is much more clear) - and both tracking and controllers. 
As I might have said before, if Oculus had sold me the Index and called it CV2, I'd have no problems with that ;) 
Compared to the CV1 ss 2.0 (SteamVR 200%), Index ss 100% looks better due to no SDE, and Index ss 200% looks so much better that you really can't compare these two HMDs. When using the CV1 before I got the Index, I noticed the massive SDE especially in red and orange colors, where you had like one thin red line surrounded by like 3 black lines, and then another thin red line - so the black areas surrounding some colors were massive. But even white lines (or blue), which seem to have the least SDE, also have very thin black lines separating them, but before getting the Index I didn't notice them much. But I do know - the SDE in CV1 is simply massive, it's everywhere, and the res even using ss 2.0 is really low. Using the Index more or less has totally ruined the CV1 for me, to the point where I don't use the CV1 for more than a few minutes (but it's perfect for the kids). 
CV1 vs. Index is like night and day - with the Index I feel that I can finally see things that I never could see before. And I love the Knuckles - full finger tracking simply is awesome, and Knuckles fit perfectly as a gun or a sword. Touch is still great, but now they feel small in may hands, and if I had to choose I'd go for the Knuckles. I mention Knuckles because to me these are an extremely important part of the Index experience.
Worst things about Index HMD are glare and maybe the weight (it's about twice the weight of CV1 when standing up and carrying like 5-6 feet of cable). I don't notice glare in the games and apps - to me glare is a non-issue, but when it's the worst it's worse than CV1. Lack of OLED blacks are bad too, but neither Reverb nor Rift-S will help you there.

Everything points to Reverb being the most clear HMD and sound seems quite good too (from what I've read). The (WMR) tracking would be a no-go to me, but I don't play sims. The optimal comparison in your case may be to compare the highest ss for the Index where you can get solid 90 fps and compare it to the highest possible ss for the Reverb still getting solid 90 fps. Let's say you can pull Reverb + ss 125% before going under 90 fps, while you can get Index + ss 200%. Reverb may still look the best, but probably not by the same margin if you just compare Reverb ss 100% to Index ss 100% - like Tyriel probably did in the above pics.
Also Index ss 200% in 144 Hz may be something to look out for in 2023, but yeah, we probably got better HMDs then, lol. Or you could wait for Cosmos and see how it goes in the big battle Cosmos vs. Index vs. Reverb... 

Looking at the last Tyrell Wood image you can clearly see the Reverb shows more detail of the trees in the distance compared to the others. But as Rune says how much more is that gain when you begin to SS?