The point VORPX crossed into the darkside

Just be happy a capitalist like me doesn't own VORPX. I would charge $4.95 per month for access! Hahaha :lol:

EDIT: In this article he says initial price will be around $45 U.S. - which seems very fair in my opinion.

http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/05/31/unlock-the-vr-in-your-game-library-with-vorpx-and-the-oculus-rift-5874

A VorpX thread started up on MTBS3D today. But Neil locked it, pretty much saying we can discuss VorpX only AFTER he gets a review copy of it to test. That is how I interpreted his final post in that locked (but not yet deleted) thread. Sadly, all of our great discussions in the old VorpX thread are buried deep out of public sight. Although very actively discussed at one time, VorpX pretty much no longer exists over at MTBS3D:

"At
When a public trial is available and reviews hold up to public scrutiny, I'll be ok with revisiting threads like this. ...

Umm... Well... But just how "public" can that scrutiny be, if it is not allowed to be openly discussed?

Sort of like how the Gizmodo refused to acknowledge the existence of the Oculus Rift:

"At

i really am kinda ticked that neil "Once again" locked the VorpX post in MTBS forums i hear the whole story with that was that he wanted to try to grab an unfair percentage of the profits from the drivers to allow him to post about it on the forums or something. not sure about that but......yeah. I cant wait for it to come out and provide options to play a lot of games with it would be pretty fun!

Have to agree Geekmaster, I'm glad we have these developer forums to discuss things at least. I find myself visiting MTBS less and less now. I wouldn't mind if everyone just moved to these forums.

I agree with most people who have posted here. If a substantial amount of work has been put into a product, why shouldn't someone sell that product. There's no backlash when Kickstarters announce Oculus support... so why would a driver supporting 80 plus games fall under this scrutiny? From everything I've been reading, it's actually works pretty well. With continuing support, it can only get better.

I also had a thread on MTBS locked because of an argument between Ralf and Neil. I tried to offer some insight before it was closed, but it wasn't acknowledged.

From the thread: "This is how I view things. I've never had a 3D TV, 3D gaming rig, or basically anything 3D in my home. I've always found 3D on the television to be kind of flawed because it was always still just looking at something in the distance. This is the same flaw people had with both Sony HMDs and what every other HMD suffered before it (or so I've read).

The reason Palmer invented the Rift was because he wanted to get away from having anything in front of your eyes but what you are intended to see. A totally immersive experience unlike any other. This is what changes everything, not necessarily whether it is an entirely 3D experience or not. I think any method that attempts to make use of this brand new technology and bring content to the gamer, despite how it is delivered or whether it is the best should have some sort of inherent value, despite its perceived or actual flaws.

Everything from here on out is a stepping stone, and I know that people who are committed to developing for the Oculus at this point in time are doing it for personal reasons on top of whatever other reasons there may be. We only want to see what works and where we can take this awesome new technology. I love to appreciate everything that everyone is doing for this. I check every day for news, updates, game announcements, and even demos people made in unity consisting of a grass field, one shade sky, and a red ball you can pick up and kinda throw around with a hydra.

At this moment, having the best possible experience isn't totally relevant to me. Do I want it? Yes, eventually. But for the time being, I just want stuff. I want to see what people can do with the Rift. I haven't been this excited for something since I was 12 on Christmas Eve and I knew I was getting a Nintendo 64 the next day because I tore apart my basement looking for it beforehand. Just one man in a sea of opinions."

I mean honestly, if all of us cared about whether or not something was as true of an experience as it could be, we wouldn't already own or have ordered a Dev Kit in the first place. I am incredibly excited to buy the VorpX drivers as soon as they're available. I would like to tell Ralf to take his time (I read he's a self described perfectionist), but if he went ahead and released the driver in it's current beta form, I don't think many people would be complaining. In fact, I think he could greatly benefit from the constructive input we'd all give him. Key word being "constructive."

On a side note, my condolences go out to Andrew Scott's family and the Oculus team. Truly horrible news.

Virgman,

When you made the comment "But for the time being, I just want stuff." it got me thinking about the mass of VR experiences that Vireo Perception and Vorpx are going to provide developers - not just for personal enjoyment but as a starting point for designing their own personal creations.

These drivers, even though the games played were not designed for VR, will give developers thousands of hours experience in discovering what works and what doesn't work for Virtual Reality without writing one line of code or creating a single piece of artwork.

Oculus keeps reminding us that it is day zero for VR and I fully agree but I think once these drivers are released and refined we need to move the counter ahead a little and start calling it at least "day one for VR" now. :lol:

Virgman, should I bring the capitalist ideals many profess here into our personal community? Remember what I did,

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=4123

Also Palmer, check out the leep VR full FOV HMD just for fun. If you really want to spend some money I am working on a dome full FOV gaming driving simulator that got tremendously set back this weekend Cyber is giving you lots of good info

Palmer where do you live? You get something together similar to that leep vr and do a full FOV HMD and I think you can make yourself a lot of money with people here willing to buy. I think leep wanted 10K or so, but maybe if you can get it down to 2K or so you may have many buyers.

I am certain if you could get a kit together, you could make millions for yourself, let me know if you need me to get the parts for you. I have some 3d iglasses I can get to you if you are interested.

I even have Palmers home address in my old private inbox at MTBS3D (which neil no longer allows me to access) where palmer had agreed to let me fund him, and I was going to send him an HMD and some Elumens schematics and a check for 10K that I thought would be appropriate. (yah I know that laughable now, but was it laughable then? - I had already promoted iz3d with my friends at dragoncon and got them in the door by buying iz3d monitors for the administrators in atlanta, I had already bought a 3d camera for neil to use "temporarily" and given to him, and I had to pay several thousand to make that happen with Fuji telling them I was camerons personal assistant - LOL! Neil chose to steal it though, even though I was just lending it to him for a time, another interesting story for a later day perhaps)

Eric howlett shared info with me, I passed it on to Palmer, he chose not to pay it forward in some ways with the rest of you, should I do a winklevoss twin scenario and say hold up! It was MY IDEA, where is my billions? Or should I do as MAbrash, Franklin, and in a sense Jadorowsky said? To share, and let others take, because whatever howlett had, or I had, or Palmer has, is simply a gift from the creator, and we will be pushed out of the way, willingly, or not. Human expansion and desire being what it is among 8 billion? In the chain of the expansion of the meme, where do you originate the breakoff point where it is OK to start charging the broader community for profit?

As geekmaster has said, Neil is possibly causing him emotional pain with his actions (and Neil I hope you are reading this, because I want you to look at yourself and say hey, in the interest of money, I seem to be hurting a lot of people and a lot of human progress - and Neil - you can do better - how would things be different now, or how would things have transpired more quickly if the actions that transpired between us didn't cause the pain and hurt and allow Palmer to get a faster quicker start? eh), Neil caused this same pain for me, I had got into an accident, my father was dying, and Neil chose to do something with an unsolicited NDA he signed with Paramount that tied my hands and I had to turn him in, where he killed my account, this had huge emotional reprecussions for me, being cut off from the community, should I involve Neil in a lawsuit as well to try and extract what little (relatively speaking - LOL!) wealth he has under the capitalist profit motive memes many here are spouting? Whatever price a lawyer could offer me, it would not be enough, to gain the whole world, and lose your soul, means something to me. When Abrash says we should share information, that means something to me, fundamentally, emotionally, at my core. Neil, you know about the problems I had with Yuri at dragoncon, but I think your wife is a much better person than you, because Yuri was doing good for the community, and when you ridiculed him to me personally in New Orleans, my respect for you fell tremendously, but Pam saying don't be mean like that Neil, that isn't nice, shows what a wonderful person she is, and how you don't deserve her, you are blessed in many ways - LOL!

I intended for my previous post in another thread to be the last, but you guys keep pulling me back in (like the mafia does to al pacino in godfather 3)

Wozniak has recently said something similar to the meme that total corruption of morality is the trend for companies :roll:

Reading rob myers twitter recently:
One stand-out point made in @glynmoody 's post is that Apple and Google spent more money on software patent litigation than R&D last year.

(again the problem I had with IBM - 70% of the budget went to marketing, very little left for R&D) Let me ask all you people out there, do you think that is wise or good? My friend warren mosler says that the financial system, the entire capitalist world, has become FAR MORE trouble than it is worth. It sucks in the brightest minds of humanity, to do all kinds of machinations with derivatives and abstractions to try and increase their personal wealth. Goldman sachs derivatives traders with 200+ IQ's that could be working on VR or cancer cures, instead works on derivatives BS. Professor Brad Delong once told me about keynes, talking about the modern capitalist system, and keynes ideas on the "liquidity fetish":

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2013/01/john-maynard-keynes-the-state-of-long-term-expectation.html

Of the maxims of orthodox finance none, surely, is more anti-social than the fetish of liquidity, the doctrine that it is a positive virtue on the part of investment institutions to concentrate their resources upon the holding of “liquid” securities. It forgets that there is no such thing as liquidity of investment for the community as a whole. The social object of skilled investment should be to defeat the dark forces of time and ignorance which envelop our future. The actual, private object of the most skilled investment to-day is “to beat the gun”, as the Americans so well express it, to outwit the crowd, and to pass the bad, or depreciating, half-crown to the other fellow.

More good reading on why things were better remaining opensource perhaps:

http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/05/bsa-study-demonstrates-open-sources-economic-advantage/index.htm

As to the recent loss of Andrew Reisse, I can only relate through my personal experiences. Oculus team, general VR community, the largest contributing factor to the my personal blowup with Neil and removal of communication with Palmer thereafter, most certainly was the dying and death of my father. The emotional blackhole that sent me into, I literally went dark for several years, the night he died my blood glucose levels shot up over 400 and the doctors were worried I was going to die and I was hospitalized myself for several nights. I can't think of anything that would have made the pain go away, but I needed my friends, like Neil, and others, to take some beligerence off of me, because that is how I was dealing with it, and they didn't, and it just made matters worse for me personally. So everyone that knew him personally, don't shut yourself down, don't withdraw, that was the worst thing for me, and I hope instead of causing division as a death did in my personal case, Andrew's loss can bring the people that knew him much more closely together to do good things on this planet, because our time is so limited.

No matter how many of you try to make me believe that profit, censorship, and control maybe OK, something deep inside just tells me that is not the way of the future of mankind, I will try to remain open minded, listen intently at your personal observations and experiences, and not close myself off to the possibility, but I just don't feel it in my heart.

To people that want to contribute to this movement for FREE, listen at what people like geek master are telling you, how the forces of control, profit, censorship are having a PERSONAL EMOTIONAL effect on him, that may cause him to stop contributing to this planet in ways that helps us all (I sure hope not) but it is a good lesson in the study of macro forces versus micro ones. Pam, I appeal to you, have a talk with Neil, he can do better, what kind of world do you want your kid to grow up in?? One of pain and profits, or love and freedom?

Love the sin? Or just the sinner

Cyberreality has just said that we are at Day Zer0, I have heard others here at these forums make this same
claim. This gives them incentive I suppose to "do something" because this is it! The time is now. To contribute thier time, money, energy, efforts to BUILD things now, day Zer0! The Hype, lets keep it going, another claim made by many. (I have studied how religious zealots empower thier followers with memes that led to the followers death, but never puts the top zealot in a place of harm or danger)

One of my old cyberethics professors (who roommated with steve martin in college - LOL!) was doing lotsa research on meme progression decades ago, from that perspective, how memes are transmitting through and between us, I want to look at some issues:

Rob Myers has done some excellent work here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1dfnhw/id_like_to_hear_palmer_respond_to_this_oculus_not/c9pvvwg

Palmer Luckey: We want to be the good guys, but not at the cost of killing the company (And along with it, the first real shot at consumer VR in a decade).

It seems Palmer also buys into this, Day Zer0 is here NOW, and if the company dies, VR dies. Lets see how human beings take memes, try to own them, build upon "their vision"

Lets see what Kevin Williams has to say about this:

http://www.oculusrift.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1845

I have met many executives that feel theirs is the only way to achieve the VR goals and dismiss any other approach.

Hmmm... I am sure Palmer, from his perspective, thinks his way is the way, perhaps it is, but now he has built a company up around this meme, a company that may be impeding progress for reasons that KBK suggests and Kevin Williams says.

I can't help but to feel, after living my life, that this type of meme progression, the same one that wants us to take ownership, say the TIME IS NOW, we must build it now, and foster the hype, (which is good at the start no doubt) often morphs into the darkest force hurting progress (no MY way is THE way, I must survive, my company must survive, or this VR stuff dies) The human entities involved may not even realize what is happening to them, they are not witnessing this morphing from the outside like others perhaps, they have lost perspective. The neurons that built up to do good at the start, underpinning a lot of thier thoughts and emotions, have now gave way to things and thoughts that are impediments, but the human possessing those nuerons, can't see it, literally they can't understand why people are trying to tear them or thier idea or thier company down, because internally they really believe, if I die, or my company dies, it hurts everyone, when in fact the opposite is true. This puts the very FOUNDERS of things, that everyone else looks up to or idolizes or respects, morphing into the greatest force that hampers goodness for the most amount of humans. It is like in the book DUNE, where they say every revolution breeds the seeds for thier its own destruction.

They are not bad people, but somehow what they internalize as the right action to do the most good, has now morphed into actually doing great harm for the majority of humans. I remember Paul Atriedes saw great problems if his own myth and fame kept growing, he became his own worst enemy to tear it down, for the betterment of the broader community.

What does the community here REALLY feel? Does VR live or die with Oculus as Palmer has admitted he feels? Or with Palmer and few key people? At IBM there was a plane crash involving key people, a lot of good men died, as the old saying goes, the graveyard is filled with irreplaceable men. However things continued.

I am wondering where mankind would be today, if this same HYPE, DAY Zer0 meme progression that gets stuff started for good, but then morphs into forces that may do great harm, if there was someway to predict, and control this threshold? Perhaps a future research topic for AI minds and when to reign them in.

In other posts I have come at this from the community's sake, but in this post, I want to talk about SOLELY palmer's sake in this. Suppose his own company, through licensing issues and capitalist machinations, actually prevents VR from coming about as fast as possible. So now we have Palmer Luckey, that can't enjoy a VR future as fast or as efficient as possible, because the very ideas that got him started, have now become his own greatest enemy. Isn't that a sad testament, that Palmer himself isn't enjoying as much VR goodness as efficient or as fast as he possibly could, because of his own ideas and interpretations? I am sure a young Palmer would not like that very much. Eric Howlett did a lot of research (as did so many others), and someone took palmers hand in friendship and said, come over here, check out howlett, and get to work if you are passionate! And he did!

At what point though, is it best for Palmer and Oculus to now pass that baton onto the rest of the planet? Not for our sakes, but for his own, where his VR dreams as a youth are realized faster and more efficiently if he himself steps out of the way? Will Palmer one day wake up like paul atriedes did, and think, I don't want to impede things, but do the most good for the most people. Then the forces that have now put him at ODDS with many other people will be quelled, the bipolar machinations will be soothed, the great hive mind will be brought back into alignment and a steady meditative state will begin bringing great progress again with all of working and sharing together.

Take us out Jadorwosky....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dywGFB6-VzY

(hopefully this will be my last, Friends of Andrew, if people get mean, sad, or hateful, or withdraw, please recognize we are all only human and embrace and love rather than reject, for whatever reason)

I would love to give EVERYTHING away for free, and I pretty much do, regarding my time and attention and openness and helpfulness and generosity. I am just repeating here what others have said about me. But to do even MORE, I need to stop frittering away my time supporting ancient software systems after the original developers have all died, and spend that time doing more of what I love.

To do that, I need a benefactor to pay my bills, and to add to my (extensive and expensive) collection of "toys" (like the Oculus Rift) that expand my mind and keep me young at heart and soul.

I have barely begun to contribute here, but I was the guiding force behind a lot of early Apple-2 technology, all of which took years to show up in commercial products after I released my source code for working tech demos into the public domain. I did that again for the Atari-ST and the Amiga. And when the PC first came out (4.77MHz, ROM Basic, floppy drives OPTIONAL and expensive). I paid $600 for ONE floppy drive, back when that was like about $4,000 in today's dollars. Anyway, the point is, I have contributed to the public domain for decades, and MY ideas were later adopted in products from Apple and Xerox and Texas Instruments. I am happy to see them in use. And my business software is used in industry all over the world. Sadly, much of that is industrial automation, which is not helping the current job market at all. Sorry about that...

Any ideas how I can contribute ALL of my time to the advancement of VR? I have no debts. Everthing I own is paid for. I can live simply and inexpensively (in the heartland of American where land and housing is abundant and affordable). My house is paid for. But yet, even a simple life spent mostly in the Internet requires a source of income to pay the bills and buy the "toys" (computers, oscilloscopes, computers and monitors, Razer Hydras and Oculus Rifts).

I would LOVE to follow your advice and give it all away for free, for the betterment of mankind. But who will pay my bills?

"geekmaster" wrote:

...
I did that again for the Atari-ST and the Amiga.
...

Forgive the sidetracking, but: Anything interesting of your's (however old and obsolete), worth checking out on Aminet? :7