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CrashFu
Inspiring
July 21, 2016
Question

We have to stop associating all VR with motion controls...

Things I see Vive-owners saying on social media on a near-daily basis:

"The Vive  is the only real VR because it has motion controls!"

"Without motion controls, VR is just a monitor on your face"

"Why would I play this game if it doesn't have motion controls in it?"

"This game is incredible because motion controls! (no other reason given)"

"You can't get immersion without motion controls."

"I'll buy anything with motion controls in it!"

Things I see my fellow Rifters saying here:

"Oh yeah well the Rift WILL be the best AFTER we get motion controls!"

"These games are fun I guess but they'd be better if they used Touch"

"Every game I want to see in the future involves motion controls."

Things I remember Wii-owners saying:

"I can't wait until the Wii comes out, motion controls are going to revolutionize gaming!"

"Oh wow, Wii Sports is the most incredible game I've ever played! Motion controls, yay!"

"Huh... motion controls sure got old fast. All these developers just shoe-horned them in unnecessarily thinking we'd buy anything involving the wii-mote, instead of actually making the games good."

"All these motion-control games are the same. I'm not buying any more."

"How much store credit can I get for this Wii?  You say you're already overstocked?"


This pattern worries me.  Thanks to the Vive craze, a LOT of people are now looking at VR headsets as just an accessory TO motion control gaming, rather than the other way around.  So what's going to happen to VR after everyone inevitably gets bored of motion controls again?  Will the VR platforms thrive even after people become jaded with motion controls?  Wil people jump ship from the Vive to the Rift, because we have content that doesn't rely entirely on motion controls to be fun?  Or will they just conclude that all VR was a fad?

Or will motion controls actually survive past the "novelty" stage this time around?  Will developers have learned from the Wii's short time in the lime-light (and the utter failure of Kinect) and actually go to the effort of making GOOD games that just happen to involve motion controls,  or will they flood the VR platforms with glorified tech demos and half-assed shovelware that rely entirely on the novelty of motion controls, after seeing how easily impressed consumers are with such content on the Vive?

Believe me, I'm as eager as the rest of you to get my hands on Touch, but much like the people raving about the Vive now, and everyone hyped for the Wii when it first came out, this excitement is based on what could potentially be rather than anything we know for sure.  The future of the entire VR industry shouldn't rely on whether our expectations for motion controls are met, because then if motion controls prove to be a short-lived novelty, VR would die with them. People need to see that VR is amazing with OR without motion controls, so that it will survive even if that proves to be a fad.

168 replies

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JED44
Up and Coming
July 23, 2016
@CrashFu PS - I understand your skepticism and a bit of skepticism is always healthy, but I would really urge you to go out and give these games a try. Find someone in the area with a vive or find a demo location and start trying it out. Get a good amount of first hand experience with whatever titles you can. 

After that you will be in a  much better position to see what good is being done and what could and should be done differently. You can argue against the concepts and associations of VR and motion controls till everyone is blue in the face, but like..what does that accomplish? If you have issues with it, have issues with the way its done and ideas on how to improve it, not just with the fact that it exists. 

I am not trying to discredit your thoughts or opinions, because you bring up points that should be addressed and answered in a satisfactory way. But I really think you would benefit from experiencing it first hand. and bringing that experience to the table to better  bolster and shape your points.
Zenbane
Zenbane
Honored Contributor
July 23, 2016


@zenbane....huh? I want to know what you think..that is all. Note, that you have already avoided one question and one request for how you define AAA. Don't try to avoid these requests by asking another question, that shows insecurity.


You realize that I'm the king of baiting people, so you trying to bait me with remarks of, "you are insecure," won't really work on me lol

The truth is that you are very strongly arguing against the notion that AAA games will continue to have a huge impact in the VR world. Whereas I argue that they will not only continue, but increase in demand. I have offered evidence such as the tracked controller user base (HTC Vive) who went on a global tirade to ensure that Revive works with Oculus firmware so that they can play AAA games released by Oculus Studios. Your counter argument is to ask me to type up a definition.

Since you haven't really provided any substance behind your debates, I do think that it is reasonable to request that you provide the definition yourself. You may say that my choice to not fall for your argument dodging tactics is me being insecure, but I could, in turn, easily argue that the entire reason you are avoiding providing facts and resorting to semantics is because you are not very secure with your own line of reasoning.

Besides, how can an insecurity exist with a definition when we have... the Internet?
https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+a+AAA+game



CrashFu said:

@tranceology3  - I think most people on the forums would agree that everything published under the Oculus Studios brand qualifies as a AAA game. Whether you happen to like any given one of those games or not, they've all got AAA funding, AAA graphics, and a AAA level of polish and attention to detail.

That's how you identify Vive-owners at games conferences: they're the ones saying things like "Is VR finally going to get its first AAA game!?"   :neutral:   Poor souls don't know what they've been missing out on all this time. 


There is no question that Oculus supports AAA games. Hell, this forum has several threads where people accuse Oculus of trying to create a monopoly because they use the power of their almighty dollar to secure exclusive content. It's funny how the same people accusing Oculus of abusing their AAA development capabilities, will quickly contradict themselves by proclaiming that VR is not about AAA games.

Also, I noticed that Mr. Wall o' Text up there suggested that you go try some Vive experiences. Believe me when I say that you aint missing a thing. Going from the Rift to the Vive is like going from this...




to this...





The extra accessories on the latter are NOT a saving grace.
Anonymous
July 23, 2016
So, the bottom picture is Rift because it's more comfortable, and only allows you to travel in confined spaces? While the former is Vive, capable of travelling on more open roads, is for the advanced user, and just looks way cooler? Oh, which one costs more too? Makes sense to me :)  
Zenbane
Zenbane
Honored Contributor
July 23, 2016
Oh I see what you did there... you switched what I said. That's like, crazy clever :*
Anonymous
July 23, 2016

Zenbane said:

Oh I see what you did there... you switched what I said. That's like, crazy clever :*


Well yea, I learned from the best... Sensei
jayhawk488108
Inspiring
July 23, 2016
What I keep trying to say: Immersion happens in the HMD, and there is a huge difference between standing/motion control short burst experiences vs. seated gaming.

It's as if the VR noobs that try VR for the first time using motion controls are instantly ready to give up what they've always known as gaming for short burst toy like experiences with no depth or replay value all for the sake of being able to grab things and throw them.
jayhawk488108
Inspiring
July 23, 2016


If tracked controllers weren't compelling, there would be no Touch.  There would be no games that supported it.  Think of all the poor souls waiting for their STEM pre-order.  Extremity tracking was always a goal of consumer VR.  The more, the merrier, until brain jacking of course :) 



I don't think anyone is saying they aren't compelling. The problem (the scary problem) is we don't want to see VR evolve into nothing but short burst toy like experiences with no depth. As long as Oculus lives we won't see that happen though. Touch lineup looks like it will raise the bar.
jayhawk488108
Inspiring
July 23, 2016


@zenbane....huh? I want to know what you think..that is all. Note, that you have already avoided one question and one request for how you define AAA. Don't try to avoid these requests by asking another question, that shows insecurity.


Here is a definition I just googled:

Definition:

A AAA game, or pronounced "triple-A game", is generally a title developed by a large studio, funded by a massive budget.

These games will have a marketing budget in the multiple-millions of dollars, and are planned to earn out in excess of one million titles sold. Investors/publishers expect a multiple-of-cost return on their investment. In order to recoup general development costs, publishers will generally produce the title for the major platforms (currently Xbox 360, PS3, and PC) to maximize profits, unless it is a console exclusive, in which case the console maker will pay for exclusivity to offset the loss of potential profit to the developer


jayhawk488108
Inspiring
July 23, 2016

tranceology3 said:


What I think most people don't realize about VR is that, 100% NEW games are being developed for VR, there is no REAL game anymore when you are in VR. People think VR needs to have games similar to the big AAA titles that we gamers are used to from the past on our hefty gaming PCs and Consoles. But the truth is, VR is a way of transporting you into a Virtual Enviroment, where you believe you are there! Now, when you are there, what is it that is FUN, EXCITING to do?!


It's already been done with Alien Isolation and for me it was fun and exciting, and I felt like I was there. It would have been more immersive with tracked controls sure, but also limiting and not practical for this game. I really expected there would be more VR integration among AAA titles being released, but we aren't seeing this sadly. Honestly I'd be happy to just have that.

JED44
Up and Coming
July 23, 2016

jayhawk said:

What I keep trying to say: Immersion happens in the HMD, and there is a huge difference between standing/motion control short burst experiences vs. seated gaming.

It's as if the VR noobs that try VR for the first time using motion controls are instantly ready to give up what they've always known as gaming for short burst toy like experiences with no depth or replay value all for the sake of being able to grab things and throw them.


No one is ready to give up traditional gaming for short burst experiences. The reason people like motion controller experiences so much is because it adds not only more depth and presence to the experience, but because of the possibilities it brings to the gaming medium. 

As I said earlier. its been literally 4 months since these headsets actually released into an unstable and unexplored market. Give it some time man. Raw Data  was the first big Vive game besides Vanishing Realms that felt like a full, fleshed out game, (also something I would play on a 2D monitor if VR did not exist) and that literally just released on EA. So far I have spent more time playing it then any of my Oculus titles (excluding E:D) 

I personally see Raw Data as the start of better, fleshed out, and re playable motion controller VR games that people have been wanting or putting down the vive for lack of. But that is also coming from my experience with both headsets, both types of offerings, and the good deal of short burst experiences that I have tried. 
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