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Up and Coming
June 19, 2013
Question

Why I don't think we'll ever see Hawken playable on the Rift

I opened my news-feed this morning and read yet another article that claimed Hawken has been "playable" on the RIFT since day-1.

Frustrating as this was something that's been hyped about through the press for months and doesn't show any signs of slowing.

The more I think about it, the more I realize there's just no way its going to happen..
And this theory actually extends to most Triple A titles as well.

Here's my take on what happened behind the scenes. .

a) Hawken Developers initially see the Rift and are completely blown away. They do some basic tests with their title and see how in theory its an absolute perfect fit. As passionate game developers, how could they not want to get involved on some level and be part of history ??

b) They push forward with a limited single-player build, make press announcements, show limited demos at conferences, and garner an incredible amount of publicity for their title. We're at the win/win phase of the equation. They got me as a committed player, as I'm sure many others, and Oculus basks in the glow of proclaimed Triple-A support.

c) Oculus and Meteor Entertainment are both in a GREAT place. There's probably no deal of any sort on the table- just a whole lot of excitement, attention, and everyone just takes it in..

Now I believe we're at the difficult point in the relationship where a win/win ceases to exist.

d) Hawken developers now realize that to make their title work perfectly, it's going to take A LOT OF WORK.

It's obvious to me when running it on the rift that the game was designed with extremely small cockpits and a perfectly placed camera.

That's something that works to absolute perfection for them in 2D where the final projection looks perfect- but when you look behind the scenes in 3D, it's just not even near right, nor playable.

To fix it, it's going to require not a re-do of one cockpit, but every cockpit in the game.. I think at least 10 if not more. And its also a situation where if you fix the scale, I'm sure you're going to 'break' something else. Possibly explosions happening inside the cockpit with new bounding boxes.. And that's not even taking into account readable HUDs.

So now as Hawken developers they realize its going to take massive man hours plus a whole lot of money to make this game playable. And for what at this stage?

Oculus Rift users represent less than .01% of their user base. They've already benefited from the massive publicity of their alleged 'Oculus Ready' title, (they sure got me as a player!) and are not locked into contracts or obligations with anyone over the issue.

There's also the situation where no Triple-A developer wants their product out to the public in a less than perfect state. To do so just diminishes their brand which they've invested so much into.

So investing valuable time and resources into making Hawken RIFT-ready just isn't a good business decision. In fact, it's almost suicidal in nature.. If I ran the company, I'd sure spend my limited developer budgets supporting the 99% of active users.

Welcome to cold-shoulder lets brush this under the rug time. The dream ends up being more valuable than the reality.

This is a scenario I saw play out time and time again in the nVidia '3D-Vision Ready' camp. It always involved a whole lot of initial excitement, proclamations and claims of '3D-Vision READY' on release, and then silence from the triple-a developer when push came to shove.

Until the Oculus reaches critical mass.. (and I have no doubts it will!) I doubt we'll see much official triple-a title support unless its a perfect integration fit from the go.


And you know what, I think that's actually a really great thing.

It means the oculus experience is going to truly be owned by passionate indy developers for at least the first stage of its growth.. and nothing, not even Hawken, could excite me more !!

Now if only Meteor Entertainment could just release the demo they've showed at conferences, that would be enough for me.

AG

[end rant]

    16 replies

    Participant
    June 19, 2013
    There's also the situation where no Triple-A developer wants their product out to the public in a less than perfect state. To do so just diminishes their brand which they've invested so much into.


    Lol wut?
    Can I come live in your world for a bit? :ugeek:
    Up and Coming
    June 19, 2013
    "outlander" wrote:
    There's also the situation where no Triple-A developer wants their product out to the public in a less than perfect state. To do so just diminishes their brand which they've invested so much into.


    Lol wut?
    Can I come live in your world for a bit? :ugeek:


    Well, perfect in a relative sense.. As in I don't think they'd release it without a usable HUD, with massive graphical glitches, or up to a certain level of playable standards.. which is extra challenging in the multiplayer space. In Hawken's case as a free-to-play they only make money if people invest heavily into the upgrade experience over a longer period of time.

    Hawken to me in its 2D state is pretty damn close to a refined perfect experience.
    Up and Coming
    June 19, 2013
    Interesting theory, would be nice to know if theres any news (good or bad) from Oculus staff... but I guess they dont know either :?

    Edit:

    In this interview Nate says they ve been working with Hawken devs,


    Backer "Have faith." -Palmer Luckey
    Participant
    June 19, 2013
    Yep I got mugged into playing spent some money in the game as well building up my bot ! Got my dev kit and low and behold no Hawken !!

    its all gone quite in the hawken camp too ! perhaps they are having a party with the guys from doom 3 bfg ROLF :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
    Up and Coming
    July 24, 2013
    Unfortunately I have to agree with you. First it was Doom 3, Hawken, then Portal support was cancelled. Now it looks like Half Life 2 will be stuck in Beta for who knows how long.

    Personally I hate AAA developers, they get these huge budgets and can't even make on promises that Indie developers will run circles around. The Gallery Six Elements, XING: The Land Beyond, Son Of Nor and Lunar Flight are currently making AAA games look bad right now. With the communication and rate in which they are being developed, you would think they had multi-million dollar budgets. Instead we are talking about between $30,000 and $150,000 respectively.

    So why hasn't the Hawken team slapped together a beta VR build? at least provide that press demo so it can satisfy the eager and provide additional support from enthusiastic developers. Also, why hasn't Valve finished HL2 already? I mean right now it's only a small jump from what the VIREio Perspective drivers are capable of doing anyways.

    Don't even get me started with Doom 3 BFG. This was how I actually discovered Oculus to begin with. When it was initially released, I looked at the back of the case and it said "Compatible with Virtual Reality HMD's such as the Oculus Rift". I saw it awhile ago on store shelves recently and the back of the case now reads "Compatible with 3D stereoscopic glasses". (Have the pictures to prove it too.)

    I keep hearing excuses from everybody, and please don't bring Andrew Reisse's tragic loss into this.
    http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/07/10/hawken-oculus-rift-support-update-7051

    I'm deleting Hawken off my computer until they Git-R-Done.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TU-li1BqZ4
    Participant
    July 24, 2013
    According to the developers Rift support is coming next patch. Selected Hawken users will be play testing the patch over the next few weeks to fine tune some elements.
    Arrived - 58xxx - Australia
    Up and Coming
    July 24, 2013
    Let's hope this is true, won't delete my Hawken account just yet but I'm getting really close to pushing that red button on it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIkPeZKP-d4
    Up and Coming
    July 26, 2013
    "OculusOptician" wrote:

    So why hasn't the Hawken team slapped together a beta VR build? at least provide that press demo so it can satisfy the eager and provide additional support from enthusiastic developers. Also, why hasn't Valve finished HL2 already? I mean right now it's only a small jump from what the VIREio Perspective drivers are capable of doing anyways.


    I think its probably pretty innocent. As a developer making a living I know sometimes I get pulled in that 'what's incredibly cool' direction.. and then it swings back to whats going to put food on the table right now.

    I will say it is great to hear that Oculus is or was providing direct developer support. That changes the equation.. but I still think it might take a team to do right in multiplayer.

    hope to see someday!
    Up and Coming
    August 6, 2013
    Now they have support I read, hurray first, but still unplayable on Rift. You cant see the menu and in game you are near like at the desktop. But head tracking works :) And why put in the password every time. This is hard with the Rift.
    Windows 10 Proo 64bit | AMD Ryzen 1800X | Palit GameRock Nvidia GTX 1080 | Phone: One Plus 5
    Up and Coming
    August 6, 2013
    I think a lot of people are forgetting that what we currently have is a dev-kit. Formally speaking, all of these games have at least a year to get official support before the consumer Rift is released, everything else is just something to please a proportionally very small dev-kit userbase. I can understand a hurry for SDK integration that developers can actually make use of, but on the other hand a game like HL2 is still "just" a game and one would think that companies like Valve would probably have bigger priorities for their teams than pleasing perhaps even less than 0.001% of a game's develop... cough!, I mean, players. And even considering that, they actually try to please that niche meanwhile anyway and we even have Joe Ludwig lurking on the forums once in a while looking for feedback and keeping us updated.

    This doesn't mean that some developers getting our hopes up with Doom3 and Hawken and then delaying them was right. Deadlines were missed, but this happens and I'd like to think it happened for a good reason, even if it pisses people off. But let's not generalize this to every single case and let's understand that these might be unforeseen consequences (no pun intended) to unforeseen Rift integration problems down the road.

    At the end, the dev-kit is sold as a dev tool, not as an accessory to play *insert game here* even if we choose to use it for gaming.
    http://www.virtualreality.cl