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Inspiring
October 11, 2023
Solved

[UNRESOLVED as of May 30, 2024] - Quest 3 Controller Tracking Issues

update May 30, 2024: There have been no updates/improvements to controller tracking since Meta Support marked this as solved! Community consensus seems to be that this issue stems from hardware/software limitations with the controllers, specifically the method of tracking (as a software developer working specifically in the machine learning and computer vision space, I agree that this technology is not particularly robust enough to handle some types of movement). If you play games that require fast hand movements and/or dynamic hand positioning, I would recommend not buying a Quest 3, unfortunately. I've heard some anecdotes regarding improved tracking with the Quest Pro controllers, but the improvements are marginal at best - not worth the additional ~$300 for minimal performance gains IMO. My personal recommendation is to stick to Quest 2. Not to detract from the various improvements that the Quest 3 has brought (e.g., color passthrough w/higher resolution, better hand tracking, higher overall hardware specs compared to Quest 2, etc.), but Quest 2 controller tracking is significantly better than the Quest 3's. Ideally, my hope is that Meta will push an update that allows for pairing Quest 2 controllers with the Quest 3, but as of right now, that's just a pipe dream as Meta has given no indication of making these headsets/controllers backwards compatible. While I'm (naively) hopeful that things will change, realistically speaking, I have 0 expectations and a lot of disappointment.

 

tl;dr: I've had a Quest 2 for almost 3 years. I received my Quest 3 today and was very excited to use it. Controller tracking performance is much worse than the Quest 2, at least in the context of games where you swing your arms as fast as you can. This was not a problem for the Quest 2 (unless controllers were physically damaged, e.g., hitting a wall, dropping them, etc.). Don't buy if you play games like Gorilla Tag, Beat Saber, Synth Riders, or any of the other games mentioned throughout this thread!!!

 

Question:
Are there ways to modify the Quest 3's controller tracking such that fast hand movements won't be affected by the prediction-like behavior where the in-game hand moves farther than you swing? When I perform a baseball throwing movement with my hand/arm, the tracking will not keep up and it ends up losing my hand's position for a fraction of a second, causing my in-game hand to be positioned farther away than my hand actually is (this is not an issue with Quest 2 controller tracking).

 

Details/Context:
I primarily use VR for exercise, and I mostly play Gorilla Tag. Gorilla Tag is a game where you play as the upper half of a gorilla, using your arms as your means of locomotion. Basically, you use your arms as if they were your legs, and you can run, climb trees, wall-run, etc. It's an infection-based tagging game where you join a lobby of up to 9 other people, and the game will randomly select a player to be the first tagger. The tagger(s) will continue tagging until everyone in the lobby has been tagged (infection-style), and then a random player will be selected as first tagger; this pattern just continuously repeats.

While the learning curve is pretty steep to play at a high level, there is a growing community of players who are very competitive (approx. 10-20k players based on the communities I participate in - Competitive Gorilla Tag on Discord and Gorilla Tag Competitive on Discord). As a prominent member of this community, people have been seeking my feedback on whether or not the Quest 3 is worth it. While I feel that a majority of the new features are amazing, I have had issues with the controller tracking.

Gorilla Tag is an active game where you're constantly swinging your arms as fast as you can to travel around the map(s) to avoid being tagged. The primary player base for the game is Quest 2 users. Aside from physical damage, most players have not had any problems with controller tracking on the Quest 2, aside from when the controller goes out of the tracking range of the headset (as expected). 

However, the Quest 3 controllers lose tracking during medium-fast to fast hand movement (medium-fast: like playing catch with a friend; fast: throwing a baseball as hard as you can). The consequence of this in the context of Gorilla Tag is that your in-game arm extends to the game's max arm length frequently, causing your hand to collide with the wall/tree/ground and launch you away from the surface. This is a big issue for games/activities involving fast-paced hand movement as it's not nearly as reliable as the Quest 2 controller tracking performance. 

TheAntiSocializer
Honored Contributor
October 24, 2023

Hey everyone, I've connected with the team and they are actively investigating tracking issues like you've mentioned. We'll be working to improve performance, especially for competitive players in games like Gorilla Tag, Supernatural, IB Cricket, and Eleven Table Tennis. We expect to roll some of these improvements in the upcoming releases.

Sometimes it's okay to be a little Bing Chilling

531 replies

Participant
November 27, 2023

Hi, I am the Eleven Table Tennis top 100 player and have gone back to Quest 2 now due to tracking issues on Quest 3 after fast movements of controller. 

Now that I am back to Quest 2 everything is back to being perfect - I am no longer scared that my shot will be a miss/whiff/edge due to headset losing contoller momentarily because the previous shot was a fast swing shot.

Up and Coming
November 29, 2023

are you sure it is speed and not adapter design? I posted an adapter design and everyone says to rotate the adapter design so the face is more visible. Rotating the adaptor makes the face less visible in forehand but more visible in backhand. I made the only adapter which was rotated the opposite direction for no reason other than to be different.

There is conveniently another adaptor by sanlaki which almost nobody is testing yet has a completely different controller position. For all we know it could be the best adapter out there.

I think everybody is too quick to assume the solidslime is the best that the tracking will ever be.

What is important is to know exactly which moments during a table tennis stroke does the face of the controller need to be visible. And then it is also important to analyze a user's technique and then build the angle based around the way in which they play those strokes.

Participant
November 29, 2023

Yes - I can reliably replicate tracking loss without the adapter too - just using the controller.

The best way to reproduce is a very fast forehand loop with wrist motion too. At the end of that motion, when the arm stops infront of body, the controller stops too but jerks in the air for a few milliseconds (it loses the actual position of the controller judging by what it looks like). Then it recovers. If the recovery is not quick enough I whiff the next after that shot. If the motion that I mean is not super fast - I don't experience the above.

I feel the issue is due to combination of speed, suddent stop and lack of ring on Q3..... possibly lighting too I am not sure.

This is just one of the examples and maybe relates my technique etc. and does not happen to everyone. However, in my case I cannot replicate the same thing on Quest 2 and the experience is flawless.

New Participant
November 27, 2023

Just wanted to mention that at least a couple people on reddit have said that disabling hand tracking did not work as a fix. 

If that does work for you please chime in. 

Up and Coming
November 27, 2023

Completely disabling hand tracking made a big difference - reduced tracking errors 95%. Unfortunately, they do still happen and when they do they take forever to recover from. I can now play several songs in a row on beat saber with no issues, but then it happens and I fail the song. It never recovers in time to keep playing. It's ok for me, but I'm not a competitive player or I would be extremely upset at paying this price for something not as good as last gen. Pretty graphics is nice, but it's gotta perform.

Inspiring
November 27, 2023

Why would anyone want to buy a vr headset where tracking only works properly in a small field of view.  The whole idea of VR is immersion, and even if these controllers were working flawlessly, they still wouldn't work for sport games where the hand goes behind the back or above the head (like snooker, pool, tennis, etc).  They already have quest pro controllers that work outside of the headset's tracking cameras view area, so why not just include those at an extra cost.

At least offer the headset without controllers, so that people can buy the quest pro controllers without paying extra for the quest 3 controllers that aren't up to the job.

AI isn't a solution, because it can only guess the trajectory from when the controllers were in view, if you keep the controllers above the head or behind the back for longer than a fraction of a second, there's no possible way for the AI to know what you're doing.

Up and Coming
November 29, 2023

The quest 3 tracking does not only work in a small field of view. Quest 3 tracking mostly works within your entire field of view. It's very good.

For tennis and table tennis it's not that simple as there is side tracking volume and on top of that, the motions you make often start within you genuine field of view (you look at the ball) and then the motion is one continuous movement. Quest tracking never had issues with table tennis.  Pool would have issues but the are plenty of pool games on the quest. Bowling games also go outside field of view but there are no tracking issues.

You don't need AI. There are sensors in the controller which detect rotation and acceleration. You know pretty precisely how the controller moves from those sensors alone. You can go out of view for 1-2 seconds because of this. Not fractions of a second.

Some of these tracking issues are overblown as several people on this thread were using incorrectly designed adaptors and or grips that were blocking the infrared LEDs. There are tracking issues with the quest 3 but it's not nearly as bad as this thread makes them out to be. Given there is no tracking ring the quest 3 tracking is great. The camera placement is different which will affect games which require holding your hands right in front of you above eye level.

The complaints of gorilla tag are probably because of the new camera placement and the fact that holding the controllers high tends to hide the controller face. This could be rectified by designing gorilla tag adaptors which hold the controller at 90 degrees

Inspiring
November 27, 2023

sticking with my CV1 for zero tracking limitations.  The CV1 tracking stations can't be used to give the quest 3 full tracking can they?

Up and Coming
November 29, 2023

Some people claim the speed of the quest 3 tracking is better for table tennis shots but that push shots do not work as well because of the increased speed. At my level of play both headsets seem good but I can get more speed on the quest 3.

New Participant
November 29, 2023

In fact, I did have the problem of controller tracking failure when hand tracking was turned on. In the beatsaber room track test in VRchat, I found that it had false extensions. I quickly turn my wrist 90 degrees, but the trajectory shows that I will turn 180 degrees and then return to the 90-degree position.
At first I thought this was because the frequency of the controller was not enough, because the Quest2 controller can indeed adjust the frequency of the controller by itself.
But after many attempts, I found that there is no option for frequency adjustment.
I turned off hand tracking completely as described in this post. The tracking problem of the controller is perfectly solved.
But it's frustrating, I really like the Quest3's finger tracking feature, and it now forces me to choose between gaming and functionality.

Up and Coming
December 8, 2023

marczilla There hasn't been any kind of real response from Meta yet. They've confirmed that there is definitely a problem, but that's it.

What I have feared is that they made a bad bet, and this isn't fixable with software, and the hardware design is flawed beyond what a software patch could fix. Boz made a bad bet on A.I. being able to do stuff it just *can't* with pattern-based guess work. It is likely that the Quest 3 with its new controllers has blind spots on its data collection sensors that the Quest 2 did not.

Participant
December 9, 2023

Do you think it might be because the quest 3 dose t have good camera tracking placements?

Up and Coming
December 10, 2023

I think that's likely, but don't have any definitive proof. By profession, I'm a Principal Software Engineer and not in hardware. Several of my friends were involved with the Facebook purchase of Oculus at a very high level (we were all involved in the Second Life virtual world twenty years ago). That all left Facebook long ago (before it was Meta!), so I don't have I can ask.

I do hope for a solution as a VR enthusiast, but the silence coming from Meta has starting to seem quite telling.

Participant
December 8, 2023

Wish there was a way to get face to face with a meta employee and ask them about it.

 

DarrenJames00
Inspiring
December 10, 2023

I have noticed that when I do not sacrifice my daily goat to the great Zuc. I to lose controller tracking. Mainly when sitting. I have been keeping an eye on this. I know people said they had pro controllers. I will scoop my eyes out with a dull spoon before I pay 300 usd for controllers. I would rather pay 100 kickboxers 3 dollars each to kick me in the groin than spend 300 dollars on controllers from Meta. I would just as likely pay for a 300 dollar flight on Spirit airlines than get 2 controllers from Meta for 300 dollary doos. I have noticed that when I use my Quest 3 it does seem to put the controllers to sleep quickly. I have to constantly hit a button to wake them up when I am in a sitting position with arms on the arm rests. I want to save the Earth as much as the next guy but surely we don't need everything going to sleep if your not hammering the buttons or waving your arms around like a fool! I am of course kidding and would be very greatful if you could look into this, It is not a deal breaker it still is by far the best VR solution for me. Oh, and I am sorry about making fun of those 300 dollar controllers. I bet they are great! A less trusting mind might even think that this was all done on purpose,,, ha ha, I am in for 500 dollars so really I would be losing out on my investment to not get the best controllers! Oh no... the fomo is kicking in!