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December 17, 2013

Oculus + unlimited detail (Euclideon)

I'm not a developer, just a gaming and VR enthusiast. I was wondering if anyone thought of or is working on using Euclideon's Unlimited Detail technology to make an absolutely EPIC VR experience yet? If you haven't heard of Euclideon, here is their official site, it is truly incredible, and it's potential could be more fully appreciated and realized with the Oculus.

http://www.euclideon.com/

Euclideon's unlimited detail technology does exactly that. It allows the use of unlimited point cloud data in place of polygons for rendering graphical software. Sounds impossible, but they claim it works due to a google-like search algorithm that is able to find and send to your systems ram, only one point of cloud data for every pixel of your monitor. In this way the processor requirements to render any scene no matter how graphically detailed, stays exactly the same, and manageable. Whats more, the requirements are so low, even a basic laptop can produce graphics 100,000 times more detailed than even the most advanced polygon-based game on the market today. It seems to me, that due to this fact, it should help the oculus meet it's demanding latency requirements far better than polygon-based graphics, AND it will look about 100,000 times cooler... but dont take my word for it, do your own research on this.

Euclideon has received a lot of flak and harassment from the tech community doubting their claims, but as you can see from their site, they have their act together, and make a very convincing case.

someone with the skills, MAKE IT HAPPEN please!!! Oculus + Euclideon = EPIC WIN and the future of simulation technology.

    86 replies

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    Peteo
    Up and Coming
    April 16, 2014
    http://brigade3.com/brigade-3-0-preview-at-gtc-2014

    This is just crazy. I remember back in 1990 to ray trace a 3D scene took 24 hours on my Amiga. That's 1 frame!!
    Probably gonna take 5+ years for "low" cost chips to do this real time. But man, when this happens VR is going to blast off.
    cerebral
    Participant
    April 16, 2014


    Brigade gets almost the same quality as it uses much of the same code. :D
    http://vrdisplay.blogspot.de/
    ElectricMucus
    Up and Coming
    April 19, 2014
    All of this is very nice but is has nothing to do with VR, perhaps AR...

    What I don't get is why all the research focusses on more an more accurate offline renderers while nobody seems to try to port the old stuff to a realtime approach. Brigade uses plain unbiased monte carlo pathtracing for their realtime demos, clearly that is overkill for a realtime renderer. From the looks of it they aren't even trying to re-use samples from perspective changes, just display the image as it converges which gives this motion smear(blur) effect.

    I get it they provide offline rendering cloud services and their realtime renderer does the same thing as the offline one.
    Guspaz
    Up and Coming
    April 21, 2014
    Brigade looks like a neat tech demo, but it's very far away from being practical for real-world use... They need to be able to render at significantly higher resolutions with significantly less noise. Their reliance on cloud-based rendering also means it'll never be well-suited for VR. Cloud rendering can probably work fine for most types of games with sufficiently low network latency, but every millisecond counts with VR.
    ElectricMucus
    Up and Coming
    April 21, 2014
    "guspaz" wrote:
    Brigade looks like a neat tech demo, but it's very far away from being practical for real-world use... They need to be able to render at significantly higher resolutions with significantly less noise. Their reliance on cloud-based rendering also means it'll never be well-suited for VR. Cloud rendering can probably work fine for most types of games with sufficiently low network latency, but every millisecond counts with VR.


    They are targeting off-line rendering, not building a game engine. You know animations in film, commercials, and so on. There is a big market for that. They are simply showing the live preview of what converges to a physically correct rendering of arbitrary fidelity.

    Now we don't need to be physically correct in realtime stuff, which means it can be a biased renderer, an engine which doesn't approach physical correctness asymptotically but only approximates it. This is how rendering used to work before we had the processing power to do unbiased path tracing.
    I haven't seen somebody demostrate VR suitable framerates with something like it, but I strongly suspect it's possible.

    Realtime radiosity for example is one approach which should be feasible to do.
    There are also many improvements which can be done to path tracing in distributing the sampling. With basic monte carlo sampling very much of the processing power is wasted to make sure it remains accurate.
    The sampling is done in a random fashion according to the bidirectional light distribution of the material and/or lights. If you permit just a slight error you can use another non random sampling scheme.
    Guspaz
    Up and Coming
    April 21, 2014
    But does that really provide a significant advantage over the current approach to real-time approximations for offline rendering work, which uses a local rasterization engine for real-time previews? Or you might even ask, do you really need to do the rendering in the cloud, on rather slow EC2 instances, instead of slapping a Tesla into your workstation and doing the path rendering locally?
    ElectricMucus
    Up and Coming
    April 21, 2014
    "guspaz" wrote:
    But does that really provide a significant advantage over the current approach to real-time approximations for offline rendering work, which uses a local rasterization engine for real-time previews? Or you might even ask, do you really need to do the rendering in the cloud, on rather slow EC2 instances, instead of slapping a Tesla into your workstation and doing the path rendering locally?


    That you'd have to ask them. Personally I doubt it too. There are already pretty good offline path tracer, cycles in blender which not only costs nothing to use it's also FOSS. They say it beats owning hardware you don't utilize.
    nasses321
    Up and Coming
    April 21, 2014
    If Euclideon really was great for gaming they would probably release a demo or so, maybe starting a kickstarter to get funding and making a game engine, but they don't.
    cerebral
    Participant
    April 21, 2014
    Forget Euclideon. It just hurts. :lol:
    Crytek will show soon some CG quality real time graphics with help of Mantle.
    If they can keep the quality of new Stars Wars CGIs i would be already lucky.
    http://vrdisplay.blogspot.de/
    cybereality
    Inspiring
    April 22, 2014
    "cerebral" wrote:


    Brigade gets almost the same quality as it uses much of the same code. :D

    Looks amazing!
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