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Up and Coming
January 13, 2014

Should Oculus bundle motion controllers with every Rift?

Hi there!

I've mentioned this a couple times back around September, but now that it's official that Oculus VR is focusing on a seated experience and that external optical tracking looks likely for CV1 i think it's become relevant again..

Also posted a comment on Reddit the other day, just thought i would create a new thread here to see if we can get a bit more feedback.
http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/1uw0nl/the_next_big_hurdle_for_vr_getting_your_hands_in

Here's a slightly edited version of my reply to the OP:
"PatimPatam" wrote:

Basically, i believe that the company in the best position to put our hands inside the game is actually Oculus VR itself.

I would love to have an affordable haptic feedback glove, but for the 1st generation of consumer VR i don't think we really need one; a motion controller similar to the PS-Move but where each finger rests in a separate analog button (with optional force feedback) should be enough to simulate our hands. For instance I can imagine it having the shape of a prism or a dumbbell, with several LEDs on both ends.

Having already an external camera for positional tracking this type of controller should be very cheap to produce for Oculus (basically just plastic, a few LEDs, a bluetooth transmitter, and one of the awesome IMUs they already developed to use inside the headset).

I think Oculus could perfectly bundle 2 of these controllers with every Rift sold, without adding more than $40 or $50 to the final price.

I know it may not sound like super-exciting high-tech at first, but the fact that EVERY Rift user would have the same VR input would make a MASSIVE difference. Developers could create VR games and applications with very intuitive interfaces from day 1 knowing that there is a standard input shared by all users.


And here's a very rough sketch i made to have an idea of what i mean. On top of that there should probably be a strap that goes around the back of your hand, so the controller stays in place even with the palm open.



Also optionally there could be a thumbstick instead of the thumb button, but i don't really think it's necessary since i believe avatar movement/rotation could be archived in more intuitive ways, like pressing a button and using positional tracking (lean forward to move forward for instance). Thumbsticks for movement have become quite standard between gamers but i don't think they are that intuitive for the average person.

More on that here:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=18694


Obviously the main technical difficulty with this solution would be how to differentiate controller LEDs from HMD LEDs. The more trivial approach would probably be using a visible spectrum camera instead of infrared and have different colors for each controller but that has it's own set of disadvantages.. anyway i think with the team of computer vision experts at Oculus this should be certainly doable.

I'm also quite certain that a system like this (if used at an optimal distance from the camera) could be much more accurate than alternatives like magnetic tracking (mainly due to the magnetic distortion problem).

At the same time systems like the STEM or PrioVR could still be useful for scenarios where the user wants to move around with more freedom within a confined space, or inside omni threadmills.


I've seen quite a few people complaining about the external camera solution.. Am i the only one INSANELY excited about it?? I believe this could potentially bring us one step closer to the Oasis console.

I honestly think this should be a no-brainer for Oculus, and actually i'm betting they already have some hand-controller internal prototypes; then again maybe i'm wrong :-)

Thoughts?


EDIT:

Like i mentioned later in this thread, if occlusion is too troublesome to sort out with only the existing front camera, a 2nd inside-out camera with a wide FOV could be used on the headset to help track the controllers. If the HMD is blocked by the controllers, the relative position between the external camera and the HMD could be calculated integrating the relative position between camera and controllers and the relative position between controllers and HMD.

Maybe this inside-out camera could be used at the same time for pass-through functionality similar to Gear VR. Obviously this would add both weight and cost to the HMD, but i don't see it as a show-stopper.

    132 replies

    Up and Coming
    March 10, 2014
    "Tbone" wrote:
    I just managed to get my VR Input question asked on the SXSW panel. It definitely sounds like Oculus is hard at work on VR Input as we speak. They mentioned it was the next big hurdle after positional tracking and low persistence, so I think it's actually their top priority at the moment!

    Thanks for that Tbone, yes i did watch it! I think it was quite interesting to see Nate mention VR input even before any question about it came up. I also got the impression that they have changed their tune a bit, from the "it's a long term and difficult problem" to the "it's a priority, we are working on it and we are making progress". Maybe i'm reading too much into it, but together with Palmer's "we're not going to spill all the beans yet" i think they might already have a pretty solid idea of what and when they plan to reveal.

    I'm still secretly hoping they will announce something related to this at GDC or E3, but i know it's probably not very realistic.. anyway it seems plausible that we could get an affordable input solution from Oculus at the same time or soon after the Rift CV1. Even if it's not the ideal scenario of a one VR package system, i think it would still be a big step in the right direction.

    "Frito" wrote:
    "PatimPatam" wrote:

    The question is, do we want more apps like The Gallery or MakeVR for this 1st gen? Or do we have to wait a few years until we get affordable and perfect finger tracking, haptic feedback, etc?


    I ll take a while for people to accept that, even as cool as VR is, you have to wear a plastic brick in yor head to enjoy it. adding gloves, wires, bodysensors etc for haptics wont help right now imo, even if those are the ultimate VR imputs...

    Oh in case it wasn't clear it was kind of a rhetorical question, but i agree that for now the average user won't like to put up with something like gloves, i think maximum a quick strap on for each hand.. that's part of the reason why my first post design simply used analog buttons.
    Up and Coming
    March 10, 2014
    Yeah, right now it feels like something close to Crystal Cove will be the DK2 and have no controllers, but that by the time CV1 rolls around they'll have input as well. The fact that they are making progress but don't want to spoil all the beans just yet is a pretty good sign!
    The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!
    Up and Coming
    April 25, 2014
    Did you check out the the M1-created Leap Motion Demo Pack? It's quick and easy to get your hands into Unity3D and interact with objects seen through the Oculus Rift

    Unity 3D Assest
    https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/#/content/12639

    M-1's project:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7a6foNlHo
    Up and Coming
    April 30, 2014
    "LeapMotion" wrote:
    Did you check out the the M1-created Leap Motion Demo Pack? It's quick and easy to get your hands into Unity3D and interact with objects seen through the Oculus Rift

    I'm sorry but i have trouble seeing the Leap Motion as a general-purpose VR input device (even if it worked as advertised), maybe for some limited games or experiences..


    On a different front, good news from Sixense:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/89577853/stem-system-the-best-way-to-interact-with-virtual/posts/827198

    - Significantly improved accuracy (possible fix for the magnetic distortion issue)
    - Lower-priced consumer products

    If they manage to really deliver on both fronts without negatively affecting others (like usability, by forcing tedious calibrations each time you use it), then i could probably change my mind about the STEM system.

    For now i'll keep developing using the Hydra and the PS Move, and crossing my fingers that either Sixense or Oculus finally nail this (sooner than later).
    Up and Coming
    April 30, 2014
    I've not heard anything on the PrioVR front for a while but I'm hoping their implementation is going to be at worst useable and at best really immersive. You wouldn't have finger tracking but at least arm/hand, leg/foot, and torso tracking will give you the most general-purpose VR input so far.
    Up and Coming
    May 2, 2014
    I have mentioned elsewhere on the forums, that, currently, we probably do NOT want to have completely immersive VR. Yea, developing this kind of tech is "cutting edge" right now, but instead, we should probably be looking into tech / controls such as the STEM system. Get this type of controller perfected, and cheap, then move on to something a bit better.

    What I mean by something similar to the STEM system, is a dual controller system that is wireless, and will allow the use of the controls for analog movement, and button-presses for actions. Use the tracking for IK avatar animations.

    For the CV1 release, we shouldn't be trying to perfect the entire experience. Baby steps.. baby steps. I suspect that on release, 90% of gamers that own a Rift will be using an xbox controller, and will be happy with that solution. 9% of the users will use a device like the STEM. 1% will be looking at more immersive controls systems.
    Current WIPs using Unreal Engine 4: Agrona - Tales of an Era : Medieval Fantasy MORPG
    Up and Coming
    May 4, 2014
    I agree on this. A DK2 combines with an improved hydra (better range/accuracy) already provides enough for a full body experience. See for instance the latest video of the STEM SDK or my videos. Head and hands are the parts you work with the most, the rest is more indirect. With that you can interact with and experience a VR world intensively and have a lot of fun.

    Of course you cannot do everything with it. Running, dancing, martial arts are not really supported. But on the other hand: I don't think many early majority of users of VR will not want to spend 1000's on devices. Besides that, putting on a prioVR suit is not something you want to do very often (can you go to the toilet with the suit? I just wondered) and the Omni takes a lot of space. There will be people wanting that and willing to spend the money, but they won't be the majority of customers of the Rift.
    Pascal. http://passervr.com
    Up and Coming
    May 5, 2014
    I dont know if i got your idea right, but what it made me think is some peripherical to replace to mouse and keyboard.

    a peripherical where you could have the ability to :
    _move forward/left/righ/back from the body position perspective
    _when we press one button, move in direction of the head.

    And also, adding a "turn" body orientation (+head), for left/right instead of only a perpendicular "strafe" button.
    Inspiring
    May 5, 2014
    "Tgaud" wrote:
    I dont know if i got your idea right, but what it made me think is some peripherical to replace to mouse and keyboard.

    a peripherical where you could have the ability to :
    _move forward/left/righ/back from the body position perspective
    _when we press one button, move in direction of the head.

    And also, adding a "turn" body orientation (+head), for left/right instead of only a perpendicular "strafe" button.

    This might interest you. :)

    https://developer.oculusvr.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7987
    Up and Coming
    May 12, 2014
    "saviornt" wrote:
    I have mentioned elsewhere on the forums, that, currently, we probably do NOT want to have completely immersive VR. Yea, developing this kind of tech is "cutting edge" right now, but instead, we should probably be looking into tech / controls such as the STEM system. Get this type of controller perfected, and cheap, then move on to something a bit better.

    What I mean by something similar to the STEM system, is a dual controller system that is wireless, and will allow the use of the controls for analog movement, and button-presses for actions. Use the tracking for IK avatar animations.

    For the CV1 release, we shouldn't be trying to perfect the entire experience. Baby steps.. baby steps. I suspect that on release, 90% of gamers that own a Rift will be using an xbox controller, and will be happy with that solution. 9% of the users will use a device like the STEM. 1% will be looking at more immersive controls systems.

    I agree with this, which is all the more reason Oculus should bundle their own motion controllers. The percentage of people using motion controllers as well as games being developed with motion controllers in mind will increase dramatically if Oculus develops their own solution. We'll be stuck with third party sub-par and under-developed solutions until then.
    The Furious Angels - an Oculus Rift Online Gaming Community!