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Up and Coming
April 30, 2014

VR Gun Imagn' Games

Thread carried over from : viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8140
Thread for ideas and contributions. All ideas are welcome here, and will be considered.

    41 replies

    Up and Coming
    February 1, 2015
    2.4 Nordic is still ok, unless your using over 127 devices all on 2.4, you should be ok, but that choice is yours, depending on budget and personal preference as they all work well enough for the ranges you are looking for, as well as the speeds you want too.
    Just remember that if you want something that just 'works', aka 'plug and play', then get the Cabbellas Xbox gun controller. it acts like an Xbox controller, which the PC likes a lot! The Wii Mote version is OK too, I use it, but IT is just a shell for the WiiMote and nunchuck, but that all works well through FreePie, or you CAN use the TouchMote Drivers. The TouchMote Drivers are very configurable, and support the Motion+ Gyro and the Wii-Bar. If you have the original Wii-Bar, get a 7.5V Wall-wort, and you can splices the wires, or get some bits from Radio Shack to make the connection a bit more professional.

    http://touchmote.net/
    'Touchmote' works for Windows 7 and 8, but I dont know about 10

    ~B
    Up and Coming
    February 1, 2015
    I will go with the cabela, since i do not want to spend time fiddling with buttons, trigger , joystick and other silly mechanical problems. The cabela has all of this, nicely done and wireless, so it just needs the 6 (prefferably 9) DOF
    sensor. It needs to be full turn compatible (it seems some people have issues to close a full loop).
    i ordered 2 mores cabela (ps3 version) to make some prototypes.
    I think Xpadder is better than direct recognition as xbox controller, because usually Xbox controller allows only direct mapping of keys in programs, while xpadder allows to create macro , so you can assign complex behavior to one button.
    Xpadder also works with Xbox controller so if you got the xbox version of cabela, you still can use xpadder
    (glovepie is also very powerful but a lot more complicated)

    I got the receiver for Wiimotes (the mayflash bar http://www.mayflash.com/Products/NINTENDOWiiGC/W010.html) + wiimote+ , wireless xbox360 controller, cabela top shot, a few air mouse, trackIR. Each application/game can be better about ergonomics with a controller or another, so the idea is to get the tracking as a separate box you can attach to your wrist (hand tracking, boxing ), the cabela (gun aiming), wiimote (sword or other).

    to lmaceleighton, if you need a cabela (ps3 version) for some experiment, i will be very happy to send you one.

    clearly, we are not limited by hardware or price of hardware, we just need a good implementation of it to fit a VR environment.

    I guess that if you can modify a cabela to give the aiming feature, you could easily sell one for each virtuix omni (or cyberith virtualizer) , that probably represent several hundred of guns.
    a price of 100$ per unit will be probably very appealing for most of people.
    Up and Coming
    February 2, 2015
    I then understand that the orientation tracking if you want full independent head/gun movement will have to have 9 DOF sensor (including magnetometer) in order to correct for yaw drift. And I understand that the magnetometer part is the expensive one, since the ED tracker that has only gyro/accelerometer combination is dirt cheap.
    I liked the "EK-86" as a test bed because it has a free space in the PS move part of the gun and, TBH, it looks more "bad-ass" :)
    Up and Coming
    February 2, 2015
    It is hard finding info on the Top Shot Elite. Is it missing some buttons that are on the standard xbox 360 controller? I assume the trigger is RT but what about LT, LB & RB? I can't find a button layout. I am liking the Mag II but if the Top Shot has all the buttons and I'm thinking about sticking a Hydra on it for tracking, the Top Shot would give an extra stick.
    Up and Coming
    February 2, 2015
    well you don't really need to care what button is on the top shot.
    you just map what you like where you like that is why xpadder is great versus game recognizing directly the controller).

    if you need more button, you can just map a button as a shift key, so all you buttons can be shifted to a second function.

    again , to be really immersive, the controller must have a maximum of feature like in real life.
    triger, reloading etc..and a minimum for game management, or it kills immersion.
    Up and Coming
    February 2, 2015
    So it is missing some buttons?

    It mattered to me because I wanted to use it on xbox360 also like the MAG II. But I guess it doesn't matter because it only works on Cabela games. The Mag II only having the 1 physical left stick and the tracker controlling the right stick. Oh well sticking a hydra on there will give me another stick and some extra buttons on the PC.
    Up and Coming
    February 2, 2015
    i can't really say since my cabela is PS version not Xbox.
    i got 1 joysticks (with center button) and 2 buttons , 1 joypad (4 buttons in a cross) and one button, you got trigger, reload, another joystick wth 1 button, start and select button, so it is already a lot of button.
    for FPS game, i just want trigger, releload and eventually a button to switch weapon, because as said previously, if you got tons of buttons that are not related to the gun, it just kills the immersion.
    for walking, there is the omni, the sniper/scoping mode should be triggered automatically (you can hack a button on the cabela for this) with some IR detector like the one mentioned above (need to check if the IR detection is not disturbed by the IR leds on the rift)
    Up and Coming
    February 19, 2015
    It's kind of funny that your controller turned out nearly as similar in design as mine did. When I started, I was using an M4 shell, but due to space limitations and the number of buttons required to make the controller useful, I ended up using a SCAR-L instead. I had to make a few circuit boards using Fritzing and have to solder the components on as part of the production line, but the biggest issue I have with the project is going to be taking my physical object and turning it into a 3D CAD file for export to a machine shop which will make the injections molds I'll need to mass produce the shell.

    Glad to see there's a market and other ideas out there. The DeltaSix will never be what we need for a moving un-grounded screen like the Rift or other VR headsets. I'm working on the final button arrangements for my controller now and hope to be getting some feedback from my friends who are gamers to make design changes for a final prototype, but I'm on #3 now after some control and input issues.

    The other side of things that I find just as important as the controller itself is the software that makes it configurable and interact with the games. It has been a real trip making this project and I hope that your endeavors end as well as you envisioned.

    Oh, and here's a picture of my project...the cord coming from the barrel is a temporary one that has yet to be activated, but I didn't want to lose it during my last modifications...I am adding a D-Pad on the right side on the mag well for actions such as crouch/prone/jump and a forward/backward action that might be something like spot/run commands which need to be at hand, but out of the way from the standard controls.
    Aaron Parsons Developer of the FPS Revolution Site Under Development
    Up and Coming
    February 20, 2015
    Very Nice, and very clean looking too. Although I assume this isn't your first prototype:O) I would love to do something more, but I really just made it for fun, and so I could get some control similar to what i want for my VR game(StargateVR). If you ever need any help programming it, I would love to have at your code;O)

    ~B
    Up and Coming
    February 21, 2015
    Well, the code is kind of the heart of the project as well as the components and how they all work. The idea on how it works is also nothing new, so the parts are rather standard for making this item, but the magic is how they all work together and the software, like a conductor of an orchestra, that takes the random bits and turns it into a lovely work of art for all to enjoy. Hell, once I make them and ship them, anyone with a screwdriver can disassemble it and get the parts list, so I don't hold it near and dear to my heart. When I get the controller with all the buttons on it (have a 3-set and a D-Pad to finish) I'll probably take another picture of the insides to compare to the picture I attached.

    I attached a picture of the insides of my proof-of-concept prototype I made first. Once I knew it could be done with the right parts and testing, I heavily changed the design of it. I attached a few pictures of that proof of concept design just to show you how ugly it usually starts. Note the 2 4xAA battery holders in the barrel, the Arduino UNO in the magazine, the +5V distribution block in the grip, the L3G4200D above the trigger, 15-pin VGA connectors for quick disconnect of the UNO from the rest of the gun and the N-size DC power components to disconnect the batteries from the gun (for assembly, it was necessary that the barrel be removed from the gun at times). Even at 22ga, those wires take up a lot of room in the bottlenecks.

    It's been nearly or over a year (off time only - I have a regular day job that takes up a lot of my time) and about $6000 spent on various tools (high-end soldering iron, work bench, organization bins, 3D printer for prototyping buttons and knobs) and materials (ICs, switches, resistors, pins and headers, screws and nuts). When I first started, I thought I'd take my idea to Logitech or Mad Catz/Saitek and market the idea to them, but then I remembered the way the world works with beancounters who make certain decisions and I would undoubtedly lose control over the end product, I couldn't turn it over and walk away. I had to see it though myself.

    The list is pretty simple, though...
    Arduino Micro for the brains and heart
    L3G4200D accelerometer for sensing movement
    JY-MCU for serial bluetooth communications to a standard bluetooth receiver on the computer
    2-Axis joystick with select button and breakout board for WASD controls
    resistors/headers/CD4021BE for the buttons to serially be input to the micro (16 buttons with only 3 pins)
    resistors/headers/74HC595 for the LED outputs for status indications (not yet fully implemented but ready)

    The hardest thing about this project is finding the space for all of it. I had to design a circuit board that takes all the black/red wires from each button and puts it on a 8x2 set of headers and then include headers for the jumpers that connect my intermediate board to the Micro on the appropriate pins. Then there are headers where the L3G4200D and JY-MCU connect to my intermediary board. The intermediary board makes it simple to connect everything together in a very repeatable way to minimize time constructing. The trigger is a lever snap action switch with a black wire of Ymm and red wire of Ymm (X and Y are lengths), the Grenade button is a 3/4" momentary pushbutton with a black wire of Amm and red wire of Bmm (A and B are lengths) so that I can buy a ton of the switches, cut the wire to the proper length, put the connectors on the end of the wire, then snap it into the appropriate location on the header of the intermediary board.

    This also helps with parts lists and figuring out pricing. If it takes me 3 lever switches that cost $1.35 each, 5 3/4" pushbutton switches that cost $3.69 and 8 tactile switches that cost $0.30 each, uses 8 feet of black wire, 7.5 feet of red wire, then the other lengths of wire added in, the cost of the pieces of the shell to be replicated, the Micro/Accel/JY-MCU/Joystick, my circuit boards and parts for them, the screws and nuts, the battery, battery charger circuit and parts, then a bit added in for the time it takes to put it together for recouping the expense and time for development, it will give me a number that I put on it for the cost of making it.

    If I order enough to make 100 of them at once, the bulk pricing will bring down the cost of the materials, the shipping can be spread over each gun so that $80 for shipping is $0.80 added per gun or I could eat that cost out of the profits I'll receive from making them.

    As I work on it more and more, it gets closer to being done. Just the other day, I put on my DK1 and paired my controller with my gaming/test bench computer (its a test bench as it has no development software or items on it like most users wouldn't - ensures my software will work as installed with no extras needed that somehow installed on my development machine that I forgot about) and played the Test Range on Battlefield 4 and went to town on the dummies. It was like I was 5 again on Christmas morning, laughing and giggling like an infant. Having the software finally turning the raw data from the controller into inputs for a mainstream game, the buttons, battery and Bluetooth all working as desired. I didn't have all the buttons fixed onto the chassis yet, but it inspired me to keep working on it more and more as it is almost there. The finish line is just around the corner. But the finish line is just this race. The next race will be manufacturing and reproducing this thing which I have very little experience at doing. I'm hoping some simple rubber molds will work. While inexpensive to make the molds, the mold itself is time consuming to set up properly and has to be redone as the mold will eventually wear out. If the rubber molds don't work out as planned, the more expensive (possibly requiring massive capital which I don't have) route would be injection molding. Before I can have someone make the injections molds, I have to get the physical object into 3D space first.

    One of the reasons I had to make several different prototypes is that when I change a part like the joystick (originally was going to use a thin PSP thumbstick), the new hole for the replacement part didn't line up properly and ended up with a weird cutout that hindered with the functionality testing of the new part, so I had to throw out the old shell and make a new one exactly as the original minus the old hole. Sometimes I have to re-position an item and the old holes are still there, but until they interfere with something, I'll deal with them later. The biggest change was going away from the Colt M4A1 to the SCAR-L. I wanted a switch on the butt plate that you'd hit when you shoulder the rifle so it would shoulder the weapon in game, but the M4 gun I was using had a detachable stock which would make the button and wire a very difficult affair to deal with. Then there was an issue with space in the gun. The M4 is about 3/4 the volume of the SCAR and the forward handguard of the M4 made it impossible to do much with. The SCAR allows me to mount the battery and battery charging circuit board and still have room to spare for the wires and comfort.
    Aaron Parsons Developer of the FPS Revolution Site Under Development