Well we've had a time travel thread so I thought we should have an aliens thread too.I believe that aliens have visited and are visiting our planet. Now I don't think that there are aliens that are living here and impersonating humans, but I certainly believe that at least SOME of these UFOs captured on film and seen by people are alien spacecraft.How am I reasoning this? Pretty simple. There have simply been too many technological leaps since the 50s to make it not being true. Just have a think about it:Integrated circuits and microchips.Credit cards and bank cards.Cassette tapes, CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays.KevlarLasersStealth bombersThe Oculus Rift lolVelcro.Quantum Computers.And then have a look back through time and you have the Pyramids, Mayan astronomy and cities, Stonehenge, the Inca's Machu Picchu and Teotihuacán in Mexico.A great deal of these UFO sightings are around air bases so a good percentage of them can be put down to experimental aircraft, but ALL of them?The truth is out there. Trust no one.

snowdog said: Let's assume for the moment that we're the only planet in the Milky Way that has developed intelligent life and also assume that this Filter exists in the first place (which are two bloomin great big assumptions). That doesn't mean that aliens aren't existing and visiting this planet, only that aliens from this galaxy aren't existing and visiting this planet. In the grand scheme of things the Milky Way is pretty small compared to the universe as a whole. So who's to say that there isn't an alien race or races visiting from other galaxies?So this is the same argument which relies on the logical fallacy of, Circular Argument (petitio principii).Question: If there are many galaxies in the universe and the Milky Way is small in comparison, is there an Alien Life form more intelligent than Humans who may have visited Earth?Answer: YesEvidence: Yes, because there are many galaxies in the universe and the Milky Way is small in comparison.Or more simply:"Do Aliens exist? Yes, because Aliens exist."Bringing up all the other galaxies in the Universe is just a probability argument, which doesn't work on its own as I've illustrated several times. More galaxies means more ways the Universe can "prevent" life, not create it. Black holes, supernovas, planetary collisions... hell, even galaxies collide. The probability argument works in the favor of Humans on Earth being the only species able to get beyond the Great Filter.But we can't even address these observable and measurable facts when all we keep saying is, "The universe is big, therefore aliens."You are also still cherry picking Observable Science. The only reason you know that there are so many star systems and galaxies is because Observable Science has told you so. Yet that same Observable Science has told us that the chance of life in the Universe more advanced that our own is quite small. This is where you choose to ignore Observable Science.We can wrap this up with the following:You believe Advanced Alien Species exist in our large Universe because our Universe is large.I do not believe an Advanced Alien Species exist because: The destruction of planetary life increases with each star system; the larger the Universe is, the greater the chance of destruction of all life in the Universe; the same observable science that reports the vast star systems is also reporting a complete lack of intelligent life; the Dark Matter theory (which is a valid scientific breakthrough) leans towards the idea of a Multiverse where only one form of advanced intelligent life can exist per Universe.How would they get here? By folding space or some sort of inter-dimensional travel, the same way that I'm suggesting that aliens from the Milky Way are doing the same thing if they exist.So my first question is: How do you know that there are other dimensions? The only way we can measure - thus prove - multiple dimensions is with the Dark Matter theory. Dark Matter proves multiple dimensions, but also leads to conclude that Humans on Earth are the only advanced life form in our Universe. Here's a great quote:The universe does other funky and unexpected stuff. Notably, it began to expand at an accelerated rate about 5 billion years ago. This acceleration is conventionally chalked up to dark energy. But cosmologists don’t know why the cosmic acceleration began when it did. In fact, one explanation with a modicum of traction is that the timing has to do with life—an anthropic argument. The dark energy didn’t become significant until enough time had gone by for life to take hold on Earth. For many cosmologists, that means our universe must be part of a vast multiverse where the strength of dark energy varies from place to place. We live in one of the places suitable for life like us. Elsewhere, dark energy is stronger and blows the universe apart too quickly for cosmic structures to form and life to take root.We can't have it both ways; where we cherry-pick which aspects of observable science to adopt our narrative. You can't just say Aliens exist because the Universe is big, when the only way you know the Universe is big is because Observable Science told you - the same Observable Science telling us that there is a very strong chance that Humans are Earth are the most advanced species in the Universe. <3

Anonymous

Question

Aliens - Fact Or Fiction..?

247 replies
29993 views

Well we've had a time travel thread so I thought we should have an aliens thread too.

I believe that aliens have visited and are visiting our planet. Now I don't think that there are aliens that are living here and impersonating humans, but I certainly believe that at least SOME of these UFOs captured on film and seen by people are alien spacecraft.

How am I reasoning this? Pretty simple. There have simply been too many technological leaps since the 50s to make it not being true. Just have a think about it:

Integrated circuits and microchips.
Credit cards and bank cards.
Cassette tapes, CDs, DVDs, Blu-Rays.
Kevlar
Lasers
Stealth bombers
The Oculus Rift lol
Velcro.
Quantum Computers.

And then have a look back through time and you have the Pyramids, Mayan astronomy and cities, Stonehenge, the Inca's Machu Picchu and Teotihuacán in Mexico.

A great deal of these UFO sightings are around air bases so a good percentage of them can be put down to experimental aircraft, but ALL of them?

The truth is out there. Trust no one.

Show previous replies

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

snowdog said:

Let's assume for the moment that we're the only planet in the Milky Way that has developed intelligent life and also assume that this Filter exists in the first place (which are two bloomin great big assumptions). That doesn't mean that aliens aren't existing and visiting this planet, only that aliens from this galaxy aren't existing and visiting this planet. In the grand scheme of things the Milky Way is pretty small compared to the universe as a whole. So who's to say that there isn't an alien race or races visiting from other galaxies?

So this is the same argument which relies on the logical fallacy of, Circular Argument (petitio principii).

Question: If there are many galaxies in the universe and the Milky Way is small in comparison, is there an Alien Life form more intelligent than Humans who may have visited Earth?
Answer: Yes
Evidence: Yes, because there are many galaxies in the universe and the Milky Way is small in comparison.

Or more simply:

"Do Aliens exist? Yes, because Aliens exist."

Bringing up all the other galaxies in the Universe is just a probability argument, which doesn't work on its own as I've illustrated several times. More galaxies means more ways the Universe can "prevent" life, not create it. Black holes, supernovas, planetary collisions... hell, even galaxies collide.

The probability argument works in the favor of Humans on Earth being the only species able to get beyond the Great Filter.

But we can't even address these observable and measurable facts when all we keep saying is, "The universe is big, therefore aliens."

You are also still cherry picking Observable Science. The only reason you know that there are so many star systems and galaxies is because Observable Science has told you so. Yet that same Observable Science has told us that the chance of life in the Universe more advanced that our own is quite small. This is where you choose to ignore Observable Science.

We can wrap this up with the following:

You believe Advanced Alien Species exist in our large Universe because our Universe is large.
I do not believe an Advanced Alien Species exist because: The destruction of planetary life increases with each star system; the larger the Universe is, the greater the chance of destruction of all life in the Universe; the same observable science that reports the vast star systems is also reporting a complete lack of intelligent life; the Dark Matter theory (which is a valid scientific breakthrough) leans towards the idea of a Multiverse where only one form of advanced intelligent life can exist per Universe.

How would they get here? By folding space or some sort of
inter-dimensional travel, the same way that I'm suggesting that aliens
from the Milky Way are doing the same thing if they exist.

So my first question is: How do you know that there are other dimensions?

The only way we can measure - thus prove - multiple dimensions is with the Dark Matter theory. Dark Matter proves multiple dimensions, but also leads to conclude that Humans on Earth are the only advanced life form in our Universe. Here's a great quote:

The universe does other funky and unexpected stuff. Notably, it began to expand at an accelerated rate about 5 billion years ago. This acceleration is conventionally chalked up to dark energy. But cosmologists don’t know why the cosmic acceleration began when it did. In fact, one explanation with a modicum of traction is that the timing has to do with life—an anthropic argument. The dark energy didn’t become significant until enough time had gone by for life to take hold on Earth. For many cosmologists, that means our universe must be part of a vast multiverse where the strength of dark energy varies from place to place. We live in one of the places suitable for life like us. Elsewhere, dark energy is stronger and blows the universe apart too quickly for cosmic structures to form and life to take root.

We can't have it both ways; where we cherry-pick which aspects of observable science to adopt our narrative. You can't just say Aliens exist because the Universe is big, when the only way you know the Universe is big is because Observable Science told you - the same Observable Science telling us that there is a very strong chance that Humans are Earth are the most advanced species in the Universe.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

Also @snowdog - there is a major contradiction made by bringing up interdimensional travel.

Interdimensional travel means that they came from another dimension; another reality. Yet you are saying that they exist in our current Universe - which is our current dimension and reality.

These are contradictory concepts. Interdimensional travel can only happen by an interdimensional entity; so that entity cannot exist in our own Universe from our own Dimension.

An Alien Life Form coming from another dimension cannot be found on another planet in our Universe, because that type of existence takes place in our existing dimension. So either the Aliens exist in the same dimension as us, making interdimensional travel impossible, or they exist in another dimension which allows for interdimensional travel, thus making it impossible for them to live on a planet in our current Universe.

If you believe in interdimensional travel, and believe the Aliens come from another dimension, then you just confirmed that Aliens do not exist in our Universe.

Here's one of the best videos about multi-dimensions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnURElCzGc0

This is a good one as well since it uses Animation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWyTxCsIXE4

Globespy

Up and Coming

What a fun thread to find on an Oculus forum.....are the games really that boring? :)
I agree with those who believe in the existence of aliens, not because of dubious 'evidence', but simply from a statistical standpoint.
When our closest galactic neighbor (The Andromeda Galaxy) would take 2.3 million years to travel to from the Milky Way at the speed of light, and there are millions/billions of galaxies out there, then I think it's absurd to make the assumption that in the vastness of space no other intelligent life exists.
Give them a few million years head start from humans on earth and everything changes.

Look at our own technological advancements in the last century, and the exponential speed of computing technologies and imagine where we will be 100-200 years from now as a civilization (assuming we make it that far).
Ask any living human over 100 years old to even begin to contemplate the world today versus the one they were born in, and you could almost say that if you took that person at say 20 years old and transported them through time to today, I'd imagine they would feel like they were somewhere very 'alien' to them.

Oh, and Einstein has been proven wrong before.
And we are just too immature with regard to our understanding of the world/space around us, and our current thinking will be seen as primitive in a 100 years from now.

'Things' can travel faster than the speed of light. 10,000 times faster, but probably a lot faster, we just don't have the ability to really measure it.
The quantum world of course, and before we get into the "but we are humans not particles" discussion, remember that in fact this thing we call a 'body' or a 'table' is actually more nothing (well there's something, we are just scratching the surface of that part) than matter.
We are made up of atoms and inside each atom you could say that it represents the space surrounding us - there's vastly more space than tangible matter.
Here's an interesting article on quantum entanglement:

https://www.livescience.com/27920-quantum-action-faster-than-light.html

Of course, as many very smart people believe, it's much more likely that we are a simulation that's simply unaware of that fact.
Elon Musk went so far as to postulate that there's a one in a billion chance that we are NOT in a simulation, and I think he's thought about this at a level far beyond most (if not all) of us here.

Happy New Year my fellow simulations! ;)

Anonymous

Inter-dimensional travel doesn't necessarily mean that they're from another dimension. They could be from the Milky Way and use other dimensions to travel long distances quickly in this dimension. There was a theory a while back that humans could do the same thing but I can't find it now. It was in one of the UK national newspapers a few years ago.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

Globespy said:
I agree with those who believe in the existence of aliens, not because of dubious 'evidence', but simply from a statistical standpoint.

Statistics dictate that we are alone in the universe due to the statistics involved in all the ways the Universe is configured to prevent and destroy life.

When our closest galactic neighbor (The Andromeda Galaxy) would take 2.3
million years to travel to from the Milky Way at the speed of light,
and there are millions/billions of galaxies out there, then I think it's
absurd to make the assumption that in the vastness of space no other
intelligent life exists.

It is absurd to make the assumption that the vastness of death and
destruction across the Universe somehow allows advanced Alien species to
exist in multiple locations.

This is a logical fallacy; a circular argument. You are saying that in a Universe that is big, advanced Alien Life Forms exist because the Universe is big. That is illogical and invalid.

Besides, the larger the Universe, the more forms of death and destruction. The Universe has more ways to prevent and destroy life than to sustain it.

Give them a few million years head start from humans on earth and everything changes.

It would actually take hundreds of millions of years. And it would also take us in to a conversation about Evolution which would further prove that if there is advanced life on other planets, it would be in the form of Animal-like species similar to the Dinosaurs that roamed the Earth before Humans.

In order for Human life to exist, a large amount of extreme probability takes place. We are only here now because the Dinosaurs were wiped out. If not for that, Earth would still belong to non-Human creatures. It is incredibly presumption to believe that Evolution on another Planet in our destructive Universe happened in a similar or better way than on Earth.

Furthermore, the farther back we go in the history of the Universe in order to give another species a "head start," the MORE DESTRUCTIVE the Universe becomes. The Universe was much smaller back then, which means that the destructive forces were much closer together. Statistically speaking, it is improbably to conclude that life had a better chance to exist during a time when the Universe was at its most Destructive. Humans exist now that the Universe began expanding (see: Dark Matter). We are further away from Destructive forces. We are the ones who have the "head start."

Oh, and Einstein has been proven wrong before.

Another "science is wrong" argument - lol

If science is wrong, then your original assertion has no foundation in reality:

I agree with those who believe in the existence of aliens, not because
of dubious 'evidence', but simply from a statistical standpoint.

The statistics you mention come from Science and the works of people like Einstein. So you are cherry-picking what parts of science you accept in order to suit your narrative.

Logically speaking, if the only way we can conclude that Aliens exist is to cherry-pick science and use circular arguments, then... Aliens cannot exist.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

snowdog said:

Inter-dimensional travel doesn't necessarily mean that they're from another dimension.

Well let's think about what this would mean. Look at the example of a Human vs an Ant. You as a Human exist in a 3D world and an Ant lives in a 2D world. You can visit an Ant at an Anthill and examine both the Ant and the Anthill from a 3D perspective. The Ant, however, cannot suddenly observe you the Human and your environment from a 3D perspective.

Yet that is exactly what you are suggesting! If Aliens live on another Planet in our known Universe, then both us Humans and those Aliens are 3 Dimensional creatures. Just like the Ant is a 2D creature. Yet you suggest that the Ant can enter a 3D perspective; because you believe the Aliens from this Dimension can enter another Dimension and perceive it in such a way that they can traverse it and manipulate it with precision to control time and space in their original dimension.

That is science fiction. It would take "magic" to do something like that. We're not even talking about technology or science anymore, but mythological creatures. It would take some sort of Godlike creature to understand a dimension beyond their own. And if we want to consider it possible for a living creature in this Universe to "evolve" to that point, then we're talking billions of years - essentially saying that this Life Form began right at the time of the Big Bang. The chance of life starting during the single most destructive pro-death anti-life cataclysmic event in the history of the Cosmos is pretty much nil.

They could be from the Milky Way and use other dimensions to travel long
distances quickly in this dimension. There was a theory a while back
that humans could do the same thing but I can't find it now. It was in
one of the UK national newspapers a few years ago.

Yes we humans can go "down" and observe creatures from a lower dimension. Just like we can draw a flat line on a flat sheet of paper. But being able to perceive, control, and manipulate a higher dimension is impossible and ventures in to the realm of Science Fiction and Magic.

I'll ask again: How do you know that other Dimensions exist?

As I said, we can confirm the concept of other Dimensions via Dark Matter. So are you still cherry-picking science? Dark Matter is the only way we can conclude that other dimensions exists, but Dark Matter is also strong evidence that Humans on Earth are the only advanced species in this Universe.

We can't just use the word "dimension" as if it's a default measurable object. We have to recognize the science that proves the existence of dimensions.

Anonymous

I can't for the life of me remember the details of the theory but it was one of the many theories that have been put forward to travel in the galaxy in a fraction of time. I wish I could find the thing now, it was an interesting read.

And you say it's science fiction or 'magic' but the same could be said of any of the new technology we have today compared to how things were on this planet a few hundred years ago. Many things that we thought were impossible a few hundred years ago can be done today, no magic involved.

We've seen science fiction coming true with rockets launching men onto the Moon, research is continuing to be done into teleportation (scientists can now teleport atoms), laser beams can be used as weapons, needle-free injections are now possible and we're coming close to seeing Holodecks being possible with VR. All of these things WERE science fiction, they're now science FACT. All we need is warp drives and we've got EVERYTHING they have in Star Trek. :o

I can see interstellar and intergalactic travel being possible before long (maybe as little as a hundred year's time), and if we can do it I can't see why alien races can't have had that sorted out years ago. An alien race even only 200 years ahead of our own time (rather than millions of years like you were suggesting) would be capable of building space ships and visiting other planets and solar systems in the Milky Way. Science moves VERY quickly, and the more discoveries and theories are made the faster things progress. Edison invented the light bulb 140 years ago, the car was invented by Karl Benz 133 years ago and now we're not far away from having flying cars that run on electricity. :o

Another great example is how computers have changed over the years. They started off as bloody great big mechanical things weighing several tonnes and now you can fit one in your pocket.

So if Fred The Alien and his fellow aliens are 200 years ahead of us they would have started launching probes, launching rovers to do research on planets and moons in their solar system and been coming up with ideas to travel between stars 200 years ago.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

snowdog said:
And you say it's science fiction or 'magic' but the same could be said of any of the new technology we have today compared to how things were on this planet a few hundred years ago. Many things that we thought were impossible a few hundred years ago can be done today, no magic involved.

I disagree on this, and provided some evidence earlier in this thread that actually shows how the first computer may have existed over 2,000 years ago. Ancient discoveries show lots of ancient technology that mimics our own where the only difference is our ability to advance that technology using electrical engineering and the inception of "packets."

But even if it is true that our present day accomplishments could appear magical to ancient civilizations, none of that leads to a conclusion that another species on another planet managed to advance so far ahead that they can control and manipulate another dimension. You are talking about their ability to identify our planet and then travel here from a dimension that exists above this dimension. The amount of time it would take to do that would put them too early in to the Universe's history, possibly before even Galaxies were formed. If interdimensional travel is possible, it will be us Humans on Earth who can do it first before anyone else.

We've seen science fiction coming true with rockets launching men onto
the Moon, research is continuing to be done into teleportation
(scientists can now teleport atoms), laser beams can be used as weapons,
needle-free injections are now possible and we're coming close to
seeing Holodecks being possible with VR. All of these things WERE
science fiction, they're now science FACT. All we need is warp drives
and we've got EVERYTHING they have in Star Trek.

Umm, we cannot teleport a Human being dude. You are still citing science fiction and magic as fact lol

I can see interstellar and intergalactic travel being possible before
long (maybe as little as a hundred year's time), and if we can do it I
can't see why alien races can't have had that sorted out years ago.

We need to acknowledge how evolution works in order to understand how extremely rare it is for human-like existence to take place. Look at our own human history. We are here because dinosaurs were killed by a cataclysmic event. In order for another advanced alien species to exist they would need to have undergone something similar due to the natural progression of Evolution. Everything evolves from a single-celled organism. Predatory animals are first in the evolutionary food chain. This is why dinosaurs ruled the Earth. With predatory animals ruling a planet, not enough time passes to allow mammals to evolve in to Human-like creatures. They are killed before that happens.

Remember, humans didn't appear on Earth until 65 million years after the dinosaurs went extinct.

If dinosaurs had not been murdered off the planet, humans would not be here. Now, apply that concept to another planet. You are suggesting that their predatory animals (natural evolutionary process) were also killed off just like ours on Earth and they were then allowed to advance. And all this happened "before" it happened on Earth, even though that would require a timeframe hundreds of millions of years before Earth... when the Universe was smaller and more destructive. It is simply unrealistic and borders on science fiction.

An alien race even only 200 years ahead of our own time (rather than
millions of years like you were suggesting) would be capable of building
space ships and visiting other planets and solar systems in the Milky
Way.

This is not true, because traveling from one galaxy to another would take longer than the lifespan of any creature. over 100 years of space travel. Besides, we can observe other solar systems in our own Milky Way Galaxy, and there is zero activity.

Also, I said it would take millions of years if they are going to travel using multi-dimensional travel. If you want to change your approach to simply flying in a space ship in this dimension, then sure, it can happen now. But any creature would be dead before it arrived.

Science moves VERY quickly, and the more discoveries and theories are
made the faster things progress. Edison invented the light bulb 140
years ago, the car was invented by Karl Benz 133 years ago and now we're
not far away from having flying cars that run on electricity

Agreed. However, the more science evolves... the more we realize we are probably the most advanced species in the Universe.

Another great example is how computers have changed over the years. They
started off as bloody great big mechanical things weighing several
tonnes and now you can fit one in your pocket.

True, but the first computer may have been invented over 2000 years ago. There are many things about the history of our planet that we simply do not know. It is possible that ancient civilizations have already achieved the things we have now, or more... but then they died off by cataclysmic events similar to the dinosaurs. We may very well reach our own demise before we can colonize another planet. There's plenty of known science around this. Because... the fact is that the Universe is configure to destroy life, not sustain it.

So if Fred The Alien and his fellow aliens are 200 years ahead of us
they would have started launching probes, launching rovers to do
research on planets and moons in their solar system and been coming up
with ideas to travel between stars 200 years ago.

But if it takes over 100 years to get from point A to point B... then it would take Fred the Alien 200 years just to get the information back from the first probe sent out.

Anonymous

I never said that we had started teleporting humans, I only mentioned atoms. But teleporting atoms isn't a million miles away from teleporting human beings which are made up of loads of the things lol. We won't be teleporting humans for quite some time but they have said that it's theoretically possible the last I heard. We're not too far away from it and interstellar space travel happening.

My money would be on us folding space to travel these distances a great deal quicker. It would mean that we (or Fred The Alien) would need to create a wormhole to punch a hole between two points but theoretically it's possible, it doesn't break the Laws of Physics.

One other thing you may want to take into account is the possibility that Fred The Alien may have considerably different elements on his planet compared to ours that might make folding space easier. Who knows?

Digikid1

Honored Contributor

snowdog said:

FACT. All we need is warp drives and we've got EVERYTHING they have in Star Trek. :o

Err....nope. Artificial Gravity? Dampening Fields so that we don't go SPLAT on the bulkheads? Photon Torpedoes? Phasers?

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