Come on Palmer, freak us!

"Calanar" wrote:
Your tone seems to have changed. I will back off. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Apologies,

- Michael Tenery

Thanks for your time Michael. No worries and no need to apologize for anything! My tone has not changed, I still see unethical people going down the darkside of the force, I do try to take the other side and walk in the other man's shoes though and concede there are a segment of people that think those actions are necessary for the better of us all. You and many others think (or thought) I am an azzhole, demonizing Palmer and crew, and deserve to be pounded on. (and boy have I been pounded on and ridiculed all over the place on the internet and in real life) Michael, palmer conceded many people were working on VR, carmack was too. Carmack could have taken palmer's ideas and efforts with giving nothing back to Palmer. He could have even taken his device and used all the ideas there with giving nothing back to Palmer. If Palmer had later tried to defend himself, Carmack could have said like Luckey has said about me, with or without Palmer, VR would be where it is today (and possibly Carmack would be right, probably so) Carmack didn't do that though, he pubically came into the MTBS3D forums and gave palmer lots of credit, he even told the press and palmer - they will try to attribute this device to (me)carmack, but it was not carmack, it was Palmer, (because carmack probably understands memes like talked about in the bible, people wanting to build up heroes and improperly attribute things to them, like geek and KBK talk about similar memes here on these threads) As we see even with recent VR stories and journalism, things are shallow, and errors are made, people just don't care about the real facts or history. (and thats before we even get into intentional subterfuge for reasons of corporate warfare and such)

That is what happened, people called it carmacks device, palmer was upset. Carmack could have never given palmer luckey ANYTHING, no public mentions, never saying he got any ideas from palmers device, letting the press build him up into the VR hero with this new vr device (where maybe he took palmer's ideas from his hmd and never admitted to palmer he took them) Carmack could have took the device, returned it to Palmer, and said thanks but nothing new here that I didn't know (how would Palmer know if carmack was lying or not?)

The butterfly effects are infinite, but Carmack didn't do any of that, he went out of his way all he could from my perspective to give all and any credit he could to Palmer Luckey - working against the press and public perception that wanted to give all they could to carmack and write out this palmer luckey character. It may not have affected broader VR initiatives, but without that, Palmer wouldn't be where he is today. So there is a lesson here, if Carmack was an unethical devil or sociopath like some people think we need in our capital markets (to win in corporate warfare), taking all he could from anyone he could to build VR up as fast and quickly as possible, its possible Palmer luckey would still be a journalism dropout working in his basement. (or maybe he would have went on to be a great tech journalist and fix these stories and half truths or outright mistakes or lies we see all over the place)

Palmer Luckey however did not extend that same "carmack" decency to me. He has said he would have done what he did wether I existed or not, never attributed anything to an idea I shared with him, even though going on stage with abrash and carmack and admitting that eric howlett info was "critical" he found it all on his own, has used the publics and press "hero worship" to take all he could from me, in a way carmack did not do to hiim. even just by doing nothing. Quite the contrary, he has turned many masses against me. I would go into meetings with USAF types and in trying to secure a job or contract in VR say I am the guy that gave palmer luckey his idea and shared howletts info with him, and they would laugh at me, total ridicule, sure sure, everyone wants to think they helped Palmer Luckey. I have family members to feed too, and massive medical bills that I think will certainly wipe me out in the next couple of years and since the recent furloughs no more work. (maybe obamacare saves me in the end) There is nothing Palmer could do for me now that would help, but even a year ago, a different "character with integrity" that was exceedingly generous with credit out of Palmer maybe could have altered my future. Sharing a little credit with someone that helped him years ago, like Carmack did for him.

So to me it seems to make Palmer Luckey look like a hypocrite, he didn't like when the press attributed things to carmack, that he felt were in error, but he seems to do all he can to do just the opposite to me and embolden masses against me. I wonder if carmack was filled with whatever luckey is filled with, that makes him do that to me, if carmack had done that to him, where would luckey be today? Carmack could have so easily done a lot of different actions that could have hurt luckey instead of helped him, like that beatles managers shutting down jadorowsky instead of helping him. So while I realize Palmer is the hero to all you guys, Carmack realized he was a hero too, but shared all he could with someone else, instead of saying, palmer who? Palmer comes out and says "martinlandau" who? But now people I respect are telling me I am a mosquito about to be swatted because I have become too annoying. Like Neil who swatted me because he broke the NDA, he is the one that put his name and integrity to a contract that he broke, not me. (and it was for a star trek game no less, double whammy) I don't break NDA's, but I do hate them.

The last lesson to learn from my perspective, is I see people like vrmathew or others who say, wow, that wasn't purely accurate what we believe or were led to believe about palmer luckey's past, why contribute to society, you get nothing back, but instead perhaps are demonized and pounded on, and that gives rise to a system like KBK says is evil, where we cant all just be cool people helping each other out and contributing and sharing and extending all generosity and credit and friendship we can to each other, but instead where everyone is a slave to NDa's, patents, taking credit, sucking all we can from each other. Where we must promote unethical people and their unethical actions to the top of the capitalist society so they will use their greed, sociopathic ways to benefit us all. If its me, I choose a world of carmacks who try to help everyone and has fame, generosity, credit to share in heaps, instead of palmer luckeys and iribes, who from my perspective, are not as nice carmack. Palmer even points me to a link where everyone says I am a deranged man needing medication, therapy, etc etc LOL http://qq.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1pw9jq/deranged_man_gets_in_argument_with_palmer_luckey/ I rememember a palmer luckey getting upset when everyone was saying it was carmacks device, what was up with that? ;) They recommend going to the courts, what for? That just enriches the attorneys. If palmer thinks I am a total zero, made no difference to his past, It has been proven to me I can't fight the crowd and am going to be swatted, thank god Carmack didn't do that to luckey.

Alrighty. Correct me if I am wrong then.

1) You had a back and forth where you talked to Palmer on another forum, MTBS3D. You didn't provide him any sort of prototype, just encouraged him to go down certain paths, and try different things. I believe you said at one point you had offered money, but that didn't actually occur so we can set that aside, no?

2) Palmer built not one but many prototypes, as he had been tearing apart HMDs before and after those forum discussions. Carmack enters the MTBS3D scene and asks Palmer about the current device, Palmer assembles him a device and sends it to him.

3) Carmack shows it off adding to it a port of Doom3 for it. No small feat. And the crowd goes wild.

4) Carmack gets credit and people start talking about it being Carmack's prototype. I read that myself. Carmack attributes the prototype to who made it; Palmer. This is correct as anything else would be a flat lie. Carmack is not that sort of person and so this was a non-issue.

5) And somehow based on this reasoning you deserve the credit for the prototype? Is that really your position? Palmer shouldn't be going around saying this is cleverusername's prototype because that too would be untrue. Carmack telling the truth about who made the prototype does not equal Palmer giving you credit for building it because one would be true and the other would be not.

I spent many years of my life writing a role playing game, "Imagine." And in every book I credit everyone who even played the game while we were testing. But, and it is a big but, they didn't write it. They don't get the Author's attribution. Back when I wrote my first draft of my first book, years ago, my friends had a meeting without me. There were five of them. They tried to decide amongst themselves how much they had contributed. One of them later told me about the meeting. They couldn't agree, they tried multiple ways. But they couldn't agree on who had done the most. I was told they tried writing down the percentage on scraps of paper and then revealed them. They tried talking over what ideas they had contributed, and finely who could argue the loudest. My friend revealed that the five of them never got under 200% amongst them of who deserved credit. Please note that was not including me, and not one of them had ever written a single word not only of the manuscript (on a non-electric typewriter) but even of any note submitted or otherwise for the game. They gave up and the meeting ended and nothing came of it.

Having said that, I still credit them to this day. But it is easier to give credit in books, there is a place for that. The Rift is hardware. It doesn't follow the same attribution standards. In my opinion you are asking credit for a prototype you never laid a hand on. That's all I am saying. Can't you take some pride in the fact that you helped with your ideas? Isn't some part of you proud that you were involved, even in a small way and could still be if you'd put this behind you? I don't want to pound on you, like you mention has been the case before. But I am appealing to your better nature to please put this in some form of reasonable context. That's all. I would normally discuss something like this privately in email, but you chose this venue. I can only assume that was to be seen as much as possible.

Thanks once again for your time, I won't bother you further with this.

Respectfully,

- Michael Tenery

Michael have u watched the virtual insanity panel where carmack a brash and palmer are talking? U can find it on YouTube. Palmer comes on stage and says he came to mtbs3d (giving Neils baby a plug) and found Eric howlett info that was vital to start all this. No mention he was handed that info and a good idea. However if ethical palmer wants to prove me wrong I will wait for him to show us where he talks about howlett and a wide fov kit before I give him the idea. Now he says he is this cool cali beach guy so i will use a surfer analogy ( i surfed in hawaii a lot). If you are walking along a beach and see a starfish and pick it up u found it. If u come over to the beach where the cool mtbs3d people are roasting marshmallows and say guys I lack practical 3d knowledge but I want to learn will you please help me and someone gives him that same starfish - is it the same thing? It matters not to the rest of u but it did affect my ability perhaps to secure some work. Without that friend. Maybe the surfer guy walks around a long time looking for a starfish he never finds. http://bsandrew.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-hugo-gave-one-neuroscientist-gift_630.html?m=1 if u will read this link

A year ago Dr. Suzanne McKee gave a masterful talk on stereopsis at our department; I objected that parallax could provide the same information, but she informed me that stereopsis provides finer-grained stereoscopic information than motion parallax, at lower thresholds. That took me aback, as I had thought and taught for years that the two sources of 3D information should be equivalent, one successive and the other simultaneous.". This neuroscientist phd who suffered from a lifelong medical condition relating to parallax v stereopsis had erroneously taught students for decades as he admits.  I found it fascinating the supposed experts were in error.  We had these talks at the ndu (national defense university). What was more critical at the lower thresholds.  A brash had been tweeting/blogging about stereopsis v parallax and seem to counter the claim if the PhD neuroscientist above.  Cb kuntz corrected me on some issues but I wanted to talk to a brash about it.  Now I had tried to give that same starfish I gave to palmer on howletts links to David smith and a few pentagon people at the ndu.  They were gone.  Alex howlett had taken them down. - talking about strreopsis v fov.  So while talking to a brash about the neuroscientist stuff Alex shows up and tells me y he took the links down but that he would restore them.  Palmer assures me he would have "found" Starfish that maybe were no longer on the beach weather I existed or not and I think he sticks his foot in his mouth (as I have done a lot in life). No I did not invent the device and never said I did or tried to say I did ad that thread that palmer links to claims where everyone says I am deranged.  I did hand him info and a good idea that he admits at that virtual insanity panel was crucial -  his assertion - not mine.  Now perhaps if I was posessed of the mindset like kbk says ties his hand,  not the free open source world I want to exist in - I don't share a starfish with palmer - Alex howlett has removed the starfish.  Palmer never finds it or finds it much later - then butterfly effect start taking off.  Maybe vr is where it is today , but without Palmer lyckey where he is today and I think that is a fair and even handed assessment of the facts of history. (Which palmer goes out of his way to refute and in my mind sticks his foot in his mouth). What is wrong with my logic and reasoning and potential butterfly effects scenario? I did offer him money he accepted and sent me his home address. Neil kicked me to the curb before I could write it down because he wanted to steal a 4k camera I allowed him to "borrow" for a 3d conference Cameron was going to attend and for breaking a paramount NDA. Luckey says he didn't know about this. Its possible. Palmer did build hmds but I heard him go up on stage w a brash and carmack and say howletts info was critical. His assertion not mine.

Point 3. I feel if carmack had luckeys mentality (of how he treated me and still does saying I helped zero and he would have found howlett info w or without my existence). Carmack could have taken luckeys device - bled it for all the ideas he could and returned the device and say nothing interesting luckey and released his doom demo on his device. But carmack is a nice person, he doesn't do that. He doesn't say I would be where I am today with or without luckey, the way ethical luckey does when he stomps on me. There would be nothing luckey can do to challenge the world against carmack if carmack goes against ethics the way I can't now if luckey does. Anything I could have gained in life or work was dependent on luckey going out of his way to help the starfish giver like carmack did for him.

Point 4 yes carmack is a true hero sharing all he could (and he didn't have too - he could have taken the ideas on the open source hmd thread or just took ideas from the device and never mentioned luckey if he was unethical and no one would have known or knew he cheated or lied). Luckey didn't go out of his way for me though. He went on stage saying he found info that got everything started and writes me out of his past. What a hypocrite after the huge generosity and human decency and compassion carmack gave to him.

Point 5. Palmer walks on stage and says to a brash and carmack finding that howlett info changed his future. He never mentions the guy that gave him that starfish in fact he seems to do all he can to discredit that surfer who shares starfish. That's a real nice guy ain't it? Seems to gloat that I am censored on red dit and I have to beg him to stop that censorship and he gifts me red dit gold and I thank him tremendously. Palmer could have done like carmack and went out of his way to say this nice surfer dude open source type shared a starfish w me and that set me off. It could have helped me w work. He didn't game over. However that is just the beginning. Michael what kind of world do u want? Where iribes molest kuckstarter for marketing reasons (cause they didn't need it for cash as iribe admitted). where luckeys find starfish on their own. Where lonsdales (of palantir formerly according to palmer but does the CIA/NSA types really just let a lonsdale walk away willingly on crucial stuff like prism?). I am in Seattle now and Boeing just lost 4 billion on a sale to Brazil because of palantir type issues. There is blowback for being unethical. Its not necessary. Palmer didn't have to discredit me. Iribe didn't have to pimp kick starter and they both didn't have to take the hooks of lonsdale in them now and maybe make future companies or govts say no thanks lonsdale. We are gonna do like Brazil rejected Boeing and do business w someone else in vr tech who maybe we think have better ethics. Hey its cybers job and andreesen 75 mil they toy with not doing the ethical right thing from my perspective. While I could care less about andreesen losing a billion. Cybereality is a Real nice guy it seems to me. Someone who if someone shared a starfish w him would do like carmack and go out of his way to help them. The starfish are so upset what Palmer did they are suiciding all over the west coast. Lol. As for my personal pride I can only reference the jadorowksy stuff earlier. Anything I have was a gift from god passed through me to Palmer and part of the collective subconscious of us all. As to still helping are u offering me a job if I put this behind me? Or did u mean I should keep giving away starfish even to the point of my own starvation and death. Hmmm my uncle butch Wallace is the campaign manager for Joe Wilson who was famous for telling Obama "you lie" in 2009 and he ain't gonna like it if I go on obamacare and take foidstsmps but by golly Michael if that is what I have to do to serve my fellow human beings on this planet. U can count on me we are in this together (Nathan fillion of firefly told me that at a convention - u can't take the sky from me no matter what else u take - lol)

Thank u for the time Michael. I enjoy the debate please keep it up. In conclusion I see u r in Atlanta. I knew a guy named Stephen Fleming there, commercialization officer for ga tech and he would always invite us to dragoncon and one year johnny x and his merry hacker crew were there telling me the evils of the planet. My uncle advises Wilson and I I tried to help Mosley so I asked johnny x what is the one thing we could change politically to do the most good. He chatted w me a long while and concluded personhoid status for corporations was the worst evil hurting all us humans. That a century or 2 ago most corporations were limited in scope and power and only had a few year time frame to come together to do service or products for humans before having most of their power taken away. But today Michael we have open source heroes that take open source hmd projects closed and are now living for the survival of a company maybe more so than other humans or just for the tech. I don't think johnny x (mad scientist and beer tester that he is) would approve. Lol!

PS Michael I just got another letter from weev yesterday. My greatest xmas gift is him sitting in jail tried to fight this tyranny. Its been 2 months. The bop is holding his mail. He says some bad things but some awesome things too. How can so many people forget this modern day Thomas Paine. Y aren't more of u writing hi. I guess we are all too busy w Xmas and family. Gee master Geekmaster seems to be the only one I remember giving some lulz to goatse pictures. Bless u all.( this thread has not just derailed but went into a quantum vortex through the swiftly tilting planet - lol!)

First I'd like to acknowledge some agreement. I do think corporate person-hood is one of the most serious problems with capitalism as it is practiced in America today. A corporation can be an LLC and limit severely those involved from consequence financially. It also muddies the water both ethically and legally when it is said the corporation violated an existing law but no one within it can be found to be responsible. You can't jail a corporation. You can fine it, shut it down or split it up but the people in it who committed the crimes usually walk away scot free. Unless the punishment for corporations becomes as severe as what your average citizen can face, corporations will always have the upper hand. Especially with citizens the united supreme court decision that says money=speech and speech is free, allowing corporations to spend obscene amounts of money to get their legislation passed through many elected bodies in America. It used to be that they just influenced legislation. Now they are writing it themselves and handing it to legislators in whole cloth to pass. Essentially they are able to buy government. I am somewhat afraid of the remedies though. I don't want to strangle the meritocratic parts of capitalism that make it appealing. So I think we have some agreement there. I also feel for your friend Weev. Individuals in government have gone a little power mad and put individuals like Weev away as if they were murderers. It is wrong.

But back to the topic. I read all you wrote. What I could glean was not a refutation of any of the points. You provided what you allege are crucial ideas or pointed Palmer towards other's good info. But, he was already taking apart old HMDs and assembling new HMDs before and after that information. You yourself did not take any components, assemble them into a prototype or aid physically in Palmer doing this. You are upset he doesn't mention you by name the way Carmack does in the virtual insanity video. I watched it for a 3rd time just to make sure I hadn't missed any salient points. Carmack clearly says in these videos that he is a software person and he didn't want to take on the hardware part and that Palmer was doing a better job with it that he did. So Carmack didn't take Palmer's prototype and claim it was his own. You are still saying that Palmer should say that it was partially your prototype based on ideas. Carmack attribution to Palmer and Palmer's allegedly failed attribution to you are not equivalents. And you did not disprove this or refute it in a meaningful way.

I still contend that the chief difference is how attribution works for hardware. If you didn't help build it you don't get credit. That's just the way the world works right now. But I'd like to take on your point that maybe it should work a different way, a more open way. If we lived in the imagined open source utopia then all who were interested would collaborate in every way possible and then theoretically produce ever more superior things, whether those things are software or hardware. But there are problems, people need to eat and we need to reward people for their efforts so that we get more of the same. If we reward people who come up with ideas, we end up with a lot of ideas and nothing else to show for it. We need execution of those ideas. Recognition can be a reward too. And I guess that is what you are seeking here. But recognition alone is not yet the model that drives physical implementations forward. I will grant you it is working to some degree in the software world. Linux being a chief example of this. But we have a long way to go before we can make that work in the physical space. Is it possible? Someday. But in this litigious country if you over credit people you are asking for a lawsuit, where their very words are used against them.

There may be a Star Trek like future where we all make some sort of living wage for basic needs and human nature changes such that it propels us to make things not because it will make us rich, but because it improve life for ourselves and others while gaining us recognition. We are not there yet. And as far as Palmer and Oculus, it is rare you see a company be as open as collaborative as they have. Can this change? Yes. Darkness could fall. They could abandon the principals that have brought them to the brink of market place and mind space success. But they haven't yet. Their latest initiative to support development shows this as did the VR Jam before this. I'd like to recognize and cheer-lead the way they have rolled this out so far instead of dooming and glooming what is yet to come. I am not even saying you're wrong. Who can refute a future that is yet to be?

Hopefully this makes sense.

- Michael Tenery

But, he was already taking apart old HMDs and assembling new HMDs before and after that information.

Can you prove this assertion or is this an assumption of yours Michael? Please elaborate and give us some facts, I want to be proven wrong that I did not give palmer great info and a great idea and that is NOT when the partay started. Palmer has not refuted a lot of my claims, only saying that if I had not given him that idea and eric howlett info, he would have found it himself, wether I existed or not. (bullshit in my mind) Also, please answer one question Michael before we go further, if you find a starfish on the beach, is that the same as someone handing you a starfish? Is it possible if you don't get handed that starfish, you walk on the beach a long time never finding one? (I claim it is possible, but Palmer Luckey has publically assured me that he would have found that starfish - I think that is his inflated ego talking, not reality)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFqxtb_axg Palmer says in this interview he did NOT start making his own hmd's until sometime in 2009, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFqxtb_axg&feature=player_detailpage#t=77 Here at 1:17 into the video, the reporter asks Palmer when did you start this undertaking? "somtime in 2009 I began working on making my own HMD's, I had been "interested" in VR before then, but that is when I began building, messing around with it" SO Michael, where did you get these facts that before me and my idea and eric howlett info, that Palmer had been assembling his own HMD's, because Palmer himself in that interview seems to refute your false belief eh?

Lets further challenge this false belief you seem to have of your hero, http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4123&start=0 Go read the original thread, Palmer never says he has BUILT any vr device here when he introduces himself, but in that thread I tell him about how important wide FOV is after cyber tells him that most hmds are of such pathetically low FOV (around 30) that the current state of things are pathetic, I give him howlett info, and tell him he needs to build a vr HMD wide FOV kit (because like many of you, I know when I have been blessed with meeting a passionate person who can make a difference in this world), which will launch him into millions, which he does, but I don't see anything where he built one before me, why do you believe that? yes 2009 is when I told him, august, yes that jibes with Palmer saying he started in 2009, right after I gave him the idea.

Even if I get a 3D monitor, I would still like an HMD to play with for some other applications

- lets see what palmer says, aug 23, 2009, seems he doesn't have an HMD and came to cyber, me, and others to get some advice, but for some reason Michael, you have this idea in your head that before that thread, Palmer had many hmd's, was tearing them down, and building new ones, do you see what you have done, your brain, in wanting to glorify Jesus (palmer) have attributed things to him that did not happen in reality, you need to get control of that!! Think of that same "issue" or "problem" over 8 billion people, and now you know why the bible, jadorowsky, etc etc so many others talk about hero worship, memory issues, etc etc and why it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for me to correct the lies of one Palmer Luckey if he chooses to stick it to me and turn his naive blind followers against me (or even smart bright ones like you who don't want to seem to accept the fact before that thread, Palmer indeed WAS NOT an HMD guru, but an Ignorant HMD newbie as I have stated several times all over the internets (and lets face it Michael, I got phucked, neil kicked me off the forums for an NDA HE broke, I did the right ethical thing from my perspective - and instead of hanging with palmer and carmack, I get to beat my meat with the homeless guys jackin it on the streets of san diego - LOL!) Palmer has a job, Cyber has a job, I am the loser sitting here unemployed who birthed the original idea to Palmer, and now being flatly ridiculed everywhere I go. Wether I lived or died, or Palmer, VR would probably be where it is today, Carmack is right, the timing was right, but Palmer would not be where he is but for certain butterfly effects, and it irks me to no end he keeps lying about that, its not necessary for him to do that. What is he afraid of? What did those replicants in blade runner say about living in fear and being slaves?

Lets continue with Palmer Quotes from that original thread:

@Martin: Been reading through the LeepVR site, TONS of good info in there, wish they would get back into the game. Looks like I have two options, either using two displays and being capable of stereo, or using one display and not. I have a 9" LCD I could try out a single panel design on, I think, but if people want stereo, I would rather not develop a single panel one if people are not interested. But as that link showed, FOV is very important... Feedback?

Damn Michael, I am getting mad and emotional again, why oh why do you have it in your head that Palmer Luckey had all these HMD's before me and cyber and that thread, that he had torn down a lot and rebuilt a lot? It doesn't seem that is true from his words there, prove me wrong Ethical Palmer!! How does that LIE get into your neural synapses Michael? ;) I think before this "clarification" of this post, you really believed Palmer was some HMD guru who knew lotsa vr/hmd shit before showing up with the cool MTBS3D people roasting vr marshmallows on the beach, what is the lesson to take from this Michael? Why did you believe this falsehood? Why do billions of people believe so many falsehoods everyday? Is that the way forward for mankind? Believing falsehoods? Hero Worship? Improper attribution? Geekmaster tells me a lot of these heroes don't want to be heroes, they just want to be regular guys having fun in life, maybe part of the reason is they get tired of lies being believed about them, saying they did stuff they know in thier heart they did not do. I know freddie mercury said to a friend of mine once, after 5000 women, he grew sick and disgusted of them, man sex was all that stayed fun to him, got sick of the womynz hero worship of him - LOL!

Lets see what Palmer says on Aug 27, 2009:

I guess I lied about not doing hardware work, as I just started my fiberglass mold for the HMD helmet. :lol: Since I have an IZ3D for "serious" 3D, I think I will try my hand at replicating the work of Leep VR.

LOL! BWAHAHAH! WAIT, that can't be true! Palmer had been tearing down and rebuilding wide FOV LEEP VR type HMD's way sooner, Michael believes so! (Michael I hate to keep kicking the dead horse, but do you see, the BELIEF you had, so many other people maybe have, and I get LAUGHED at for trying to give the real facts of history, sure sure martinlandau, sure you are the one that gave palmer a good idea, and started him down the path of a leep VR wide FOV hmd kit, keep dreaming martinlandau, go over in the corner with your fantasies and just die punk, and whats worse, my FRIEND, Palmer, who I tried to help, and DAMN look where he is today, stick a fuggin knife in my back, telling me f u Martinlandau, with or without you, I would have found that stuff, came up with that idea, and be where I am today, die you bastard martinlandau - That is how he really makes me feel, this is your HERO - the one you believe was making all kinds of HMD kits way before he ever ran into me, or cyber, or okta, etc etc etc but I think you are WRONG Michael, and the reasons you are wrong have plagued mankind for thousands, millions of years, hero worship, wanting to attribute lies that were never true to people who do not deserve them and maybe don't even want the attribution.

Lets look at what smoothy says in the thread:

That would be awesome if you could replicate the work of Leep VR. A few years ago I had some lengthy emails with Alex Howlett who is the owner of Leep VR. It truly is an amazing what he's done, unfortunately I don't know what's happened, whether he's bringing forward his full human visual field of view HMD. It had it working years ago but needed enormous funding to get it off the ground, it looks like amazing tech. His website is packed full of information. I am sure some techy guy like yourself with the experience could learn a lot from his site and the papers he's published on VR to go about and replicate or nearly replicate or even make better his work into a fully functional HMD.

Holy Crap! How so? Michael believes Palmer was this neato HMD guru way before smoothy, howlett, cyberreality, me, fugg Michael, I am sorry, I have lost it again, I am emotional right now, please please forgive me, but damn I am so angry right now.

You are still saying that Palmer should say that it was partially your prototype based on ideas. Carmack attribution to Palmer and Palmer's allegedly failed attribution to you are not equivalents. And you did not disprove this or refute it in a meaningful way.

I am trying to get at a larger point that KBK raised earlier (about the evils of capitalism and an evil system) and the only real reason I came back here and subject myself to this emotional trauma, if I was possessed of this mindset of selfishness, stealing, holding back, sociopath capitalism, perhaps I never share with Palmer, perhaps things are very different for him today, Palmer has wronged me, taken a good idea, and wants to write me out of his history, saying wether I existed or not, and shared with him or not, he would be in the exact spot he is in today, I call that a LIE, if Carmack had been possessed of these greed memes, sociopath capitalism, secrets, stealing, etc etc then he could have simply taken the ideas from the threads, he didn't, he went out of his way to help Palmer, Palmer did not go out of his way to help me, in reverse, he criticizes me, my contribution, points me to threads where people called me a deranged psychopath and it really hurts my feelings. (I originally thought that was Palmer saying that, but he pm'ed me that it was a title to a link - I was too stupid to realize that - deranged man sticks his foot in his mouth again - lol!)

Carmack says at the virtual insanity panel, the high FOV was critical, modern day software to do the warping was critical, I do think I am the first person over at MTBS3D mentioning a lot of bourke stuff, so that was good exposure for warping type memes/software, bourke was brilliant, Carmack goes on to say darpa type contract requirements killed innovation, he was right, I saw that myself. I also contacted strlen and I am pretty sure I posted a thread about it over at mtbs3d using his "fisheye" quake warping (most of this was for my own dome development, but all the same stuff applied to wide FOV hmds as well) So I spread a lot of ideas, hardware, and software, that I thought helped a lot of people, but Palmer ASSURES me my life is worthless, zero, would have made no difference wether I lived or died, for him to be where he is today, I am supposed to take that off him? Who da fugg is Palmer to me to take that from him? I am the one that GAVE HIM the idea, that helped him, and this is how he repays me? You believe he was building wide FOV hmds before he met me, but I sure don't see it that way, god I am getting madder. Abrash is right, if people could stop being human and be more like robots, this world would already be so advanced and progressed it would be like we were living in a isaac asimov book 10,000 years into the future.

I am ecstatic you see failings in our capital system, its not perfect, needs modification, with time perhaps things improve. Even carmack is no longer at his original companies. (armadillo aerospace maybe from "orpahns of apollo" type trickery, ID for other reasons maybe not so good) Maybe that is why Palmer hurts his old friend, maybe he fears a loss of money, pain to his company, maybe lawyers are advising him, minimize martinlandau anyway you can Palmer, point him to threads calling him deranged, break his spirit, crush his psyche, hell everyone else out there is doing it, joing the party, lets beat on the crazy guy that thinks he helped Palmer Luckey - LOL! What a joke psychopath that guy must be. Palmer was tearing down and rebuilding HMD's way before martinlandau, octa, cyberreality, smoothy, that psycho Martin! Doesn't everyone wish they were the guy that gave Palmer Luckey his VR wide FOV HMD start? LOL! BWAHAH! Now I am cracking up Michael, where are the meds!? ;) Hell i want to join the party too, its fun to be cruel and mean to martinlandau, come over here martinlandau, let me smack you up some too (whack - LOL!) take us out Prodigy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZPECFQ4NhE

Again, I never claimed any work on the protoype (although if neil had not banned me, I am certain palmer would have been working with me on some ideas as I did ask him to build some things for me and he agreed) Now I am mad at Neil all over again(even though he is a really nice canadian), fugger, steal my camera, kick me off the forums, this is gonna be one of those nights I have to hit the 24 hour medical marijuana guys to deal with all this stress, I am losing it again Michael ;) LOL!

I did claim I gave him a good idea and eric howlett info, and then palmer goes on stage and claims that was awesome sauce that he found, but now says no, wether I was on that beach or not handing out starfish, nothing would be different in his history, he would find info and links that were no longer there (because howlett took them down) Its possible he would have, but its also "butterfly effect" possible he would not have, but he "assures" me that is not a possibility, he would be exactly where he is today no matter the real effects of his history. He could never name me because I don't think he ever knew my name (but now he knows my name - I don't know who told him - lonsdale Palantir technology maybe?), but he could have said this guy martinlandau helped, but he says today, no, anything he did was worthless, I would have found that eric howlett info when and how I did wether he existed or not, there is a chance, but there is a chance he wouldn't and it changes outcomes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZFqxtb_axg palmer admits here it was 2009 he started, does that tie in with when i shared w him? he admits he wad interested but didnt start tl around 2009 notice at the end how he talks about warping and optics integrating w software

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSuGXPydIiI 5 minutes into this neil schnieder interview neil asks ethical palmer what was the problem you wanted to solve, palmer admits it was low FOV, he wanted high FOV, who sent him down that path? Not me, I am the deranged guy who thinks NSA/CIA are infiltrating companies/society to do harm (but the woz agrees with me), am deranged, deserves to be ridiculed and laughed at every chance, who thinks Neil stole his 4k camera and broke a star trek NDA, Neil wouldn't do that, he is a nice sweet canadian, eh? Neil didn't realize how serious I took my job, palantir/prism type stuff I always stated I thought was monitoring any and all communications I was making (because my top secret clearance friends in the air force told me so and you think I am paranoid, they are in another universe paranoid wise, they have vanished off the face of the planet, won't even contact thier mom and dad anymore)

Michael, I am not in a happy place mentally right now, and I have been pretty mean in this post, and I am sorry, but I am not going to edit it, that is what Palmer has given me, stress and pain because he LIES, and this is the result, a sad broken unemployed man who says fugg it, if that is the way mankind is going forward, where my hero and I thought my friend stabs me in the back, why contribute? We all die in the end anyways, 100 years from now, you Michael, me, Palmer, all probably gonna be wormfood, and all this gnashing of teeth and stress will be pointless.

Don't take it personally, I am mad, but not specifically at you, just at how the human mind can get LIES into its synapses, that Palmer was building all kinds of HMD goodness with having NO BASIS for that belief, but it is possible, perhaps in my own mind and ego, I have built up an untruth, that Palmer had torn apart many HMDS, and rebuilt them, before that thread, I am sure he will correct me, he seems to take pleasure in correcting me. Palmer, fugg it, I was dependent on your ethics morality and being a good Jedi, but if you are going to kick me in the teeth and tell me I made zero difference, then that is how it will have to end. And with Michaels believing lies, that will never be corrected in the minds of mass numbers of humans, it is a futile effort. I am sorry I failed you, didn't deliver that HMD, or other info or deliver funding as we agreed, Neil kicked me off the forums, and the only person who has suffered from any of this is me personally. Its best for the broader community for me to fade away, I am tired of kicking this dead horse. I hope when you get older Palmer, you don't do what you did to me, but are more like Carmack, and freely give away as much as possible. Take us out J Jackson:




I am about to go buy a lot of medicine, and ponder Alan Watts, and jadorowsky, nothing was mine, I am here but by the grace of god, as Jadorowsky says, the mass contribution of the collective subconscious of us all, why it makes me mad for Palmer to lie on me, is a human failing and I need to check that, its childish and silly, what does it matter, dust to dust we all go. I need to get back to my spock side.

PS Michael, why don't you tell me more about your game? Are you working on new games? will they have an option for a 180 FOV dome solution? Or a 360 degree FOV barco sphere solution? Or an infiniteye 210 FOV? Thanks for your time Michael and allowing me to try and change one mind.

"geekmaster" wrote:
I envisioned stealing rotational energy that may make the days (imperceptibly) longer, not oribital energy (which may make the years longer by some tiny amount). In either case, that energy is not just created from nothingness, although from our limited point of view it would indeed appear to be perpetual.

And KBK's posts actually DID seem to imply (to me at least) an attempt to harvest rotational energy by harnessing and redirecting gravity.

http://www.keelynet.com/ http://mb-soft.com/public2/earthrot.html

It is called the Kinetic Energy of rotation of the Earth. The amount of rotational energy that the Earth has is astounding! We will see below the math that proves the published value of that energy is 2.137 * 1029 Joules or watt-seconds. I would point out here that this amount of existing "spinning energy" of the Earth is around 60,000,000,000 times that TOTAL ELECTRIC USAGE of all Americans for an entire year! And is at least a billion times ALL the energy that has EVER been created and used by humans during all of civilization!

IF we can ever figure out how to extract even one one-billionth of this energy, that would represent an equal amount of all the energy ever used on Earth from bonfires to warm ancient caves to all the ways we use up many forms of power today, while only slowing down the Earth's rotation rate by about one one-billionth.

In other words, the ENTIRE negative effect from using this source of energy would be to cause the length of a day to increase from 86,400 seconds to about 0.0001 of a second longer (or 86,400.0001 seconds). Larger changes than that in the length of the day occur NATURALLY (due to the Moon)! NO negative side-effects and the cleanest, purest and most abundant energy we could ever dream of!

Geekmaster, an old chinese friend told me to always try and take the long term view of things, in the AI future where beings have calico technology and live forever, if we slow the planet down that affects there day/night cycles, even if it takes hundreds of millions of years, what will they think about us? They may say, damn those sumbtchez, starting all that rototational energy drain all those eons ago, now its all fubared - LOL! But us humans say fugg it, lets worry about the here and now, about us, screw those future generations eh? ;)

I acknowledge that i don't have first hand knowledge of when Palmer began to tear HMDs apart. I went by what he said. That he had been collecting them and tearing them apart and THEN he began building them. He is not my Jesus by the way. I don't in any way worship him, or anyone as I don't believe that is the way the world works. Worship is worthless. Effort is what matters. IMO at best you told him where the starfish were and he found one of the best ones. I am sorry you are in mental pain. No one needs that. But here is what I believe, 90% of life is not what happens to you but how you deal with it. I don't believe what you have and are putting out here is positive for yourself or in general. That's not disrespect. It is a concern. Once again, thank you for your time. May you find peace. And if all that takes is some acknowledgement from Palmer that you did contribute in some way that won't open them up for litigation then I can only hope that the attribution is made.

Sincerely,

- Michael Tenery

"cleverusername" wrote:
... Geekmaster, an old chinese friend told me to always try and take the long term view of things, in the AI future where beings have calico technology and live forever, if we slow the planet down that affects their day/night cycles, even if it takes hundreds of millions of years, what will they think about us? They may say, damn those sumbtchez, starting all that rototational energy drain all those eons ago, now its all fubared - LOL! But us humans say fugg it, lets worry about the here and now, about us, screw those future generations eh? ;)

Back in Psychology class when I attended University, I recall learning about a study where a group of test subjects were isolated deep underground for six months, with no reference to external time. They naturally adopted a 48-hour schedule over time. Since then, I read about a different study also claiming we "free run" on a 48-hour cycle, normally shortened when our bio-clocks sync to sunlight (actually blue light) exposure. Bio-clock sync cells are in the pineal gland for some species, but are in a narrow region in the center of our fovea in humans (using different light-detecting cells from color vision, which do not stimulate conscious awareness).

Future generations may actually feel more "at home" when we slow the planet down to a 48-hour day/night cycle, but beyond that will probably become uncomfortable for many. And by then we may not be able to stop using that energy source, being addicted for countless generations.

Anyway, all of my best work over the decades was done on a 48-hour schedule, so I know how effective it is for me...

What will happen when the planet stops spinning and locks faces with the moon? Species that depend on lunar tides may be in decline (if they are not extinct long before then, from severe habitat depletion).

References:
http://mashable.com/2013/09/18/google-calico-human-life/
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v218/n5145/abs/218964a0.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21383147
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanopsin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_ganglion_cell

EDIT: I see that there are claims I had not seen before, that the melanopsin-containing cells responsible for our circadian bio-clock entrainment may also contribute to conscious "mesopic" (low-light) vision, in the last wikipedia reference above. Also, the nature link above claims that attempts to reproduce the 48-hours sleep cycle experiments have not been very successful, despite the fact that personal experience shows a large benefit for a 48-hour cycle (for myself).

@cleverusername: I hope you can find peace and tranquility, and a place of comfort in life and in the history books. Allowing yourself to dwell on your suffering only wastes what precious time you have left in this world. Please use your time and resources to create something wonderful...

I agree with Calanar. I've been following this thread and other related ones for a while, and it's clear that you're not yourself right now Martin (sorry, I don't know your real name). No one should be making fun of you. It can't be easy living with diabetes, which is a plague on mankind btw, and one of the reasons I've become passionate about VR. I believe we will drastically reduce the number of people suffering from that condition once we start using omni-directional treadmills to add healthy exertion to the passive lifestyles that are slowly killing us.

It's normal to feel angry when life hasn't been treating you well. Ill health, bereavements, failed relationships, unemployment and physical pain - they put you in a dark place. Like Calanar says though, venting frustrations publicly doesn't help, it only hurts. And if it escalates in tone you're going to put your friend Cyber in a difficult position. I'd hate to see the forums deprived of such an intelligent member because you crossed a line in a moment of anguish.

Regarding the attribution of credit... a lot of us are helping out in whatever way we can. I do it, and don't ask for anything in return, but I've received thanks publicly and privately, and it's nice. Even when I make mistakes or take the occasional liberty I've yet to be reprimanded. There's a real spirit of camaraderie and respect even among competitors and it's a pity to see a breakdown in communication here. My advice would be to take a step back and look at where your posts are taking you - is it worth it? If it were me, I'd go back through them and edit out comments attacking Palmer's character, and send him a PM making peace. It's just a suggestion, I don't mean to antagonize you or inflame the situation. The important thing is to put more effort into looking after yourself.

Wishing you health, wealth and happiness this Christmas.

Sincerely, Ben.

@geekmaster I like the sound of that 48hr cycle. I've always felt the days and nights weren't long enough for me :)
On topic: Oculus, I hope you'll be freaking us at CES! I should be there if all goes well.