Come on Palmer, freak us!

Hey, look how much money Seinfeld made with a show about "nothing".

Mike

"KBK" wrote:
So, essentially, you just talked out of your ass about something you have not investigated and if you did, you'd not be an authority on.

Correct, just like most people on any forum.

"KBK" wrote:

And in the process... you made a rule that you expect the rest of us to live and exist by. So much for the impartiality of science practiced by limited senses and the emotional projections of humans.

No, I wrote about known laws discovered years ago, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_thermodynamics. I'm surprised you haven't heard of them, but wikipedia will give you a basic guide to the topic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics note
in particular it is the first law of Thermodynamics that an overunity device would break.

"KBK" wrote:

If you approach the limits of science, you approach the limits of mind. The two are inseparable. It is thus nearly impossible for the vast majority of even so called rational scientists to keep their emotions from projecting and reflecting reality for them. One has to approach not just the limits of rationality but the limits of mind, in sum and total.

If one does not embody this understanding in the exploration of limits, then the given person is not exploring limits of rationality and potential in science... but limits of themselves.

:)

I agree that people need to keep an open mind, but when people state that something as fundamental as the laws of thermodynamics are wrong they had better be able to prove it. To do otherwise is at best negligent and at worst deceptive as it can trick people to part with their money to invest in something that will not work, as has happened in the past. Cheerleaders on the sidelines telling people it's true without proof do not help the situation.

"KBK" wrote:

If you don't understand this subject, then the limits of the box you are in..are too small to see it's size. And the only one who can fix that, is you.

That's a very strong argument for your stance, maybe we can break the laws of Thermodynamics after all...

Experiments have shown that the second law of thermodynamics is still valid in the realm of quantum entanglement.

Did the big bang violate the laws of thermodynamics? Or does the fact that time did not exist until after the big bang prevent such a violation?

Do the laws of thermodynamics also apply to virtual worlds, or can we do as we please in VR, creating free virtual energy and all that implies?

there are not laws of physics or laws of thermodynamics. Those are emotional human societal control methods injected into science as a form of subliminal human control mechanisms. it is a form of linguistic programming as injection into humans, beneath the level of conscious knowing. Be aware.

when you investigate to the depths of science, you find that it is suppositional logic in observation and testing, based upon layers and layers and layers of that exact thing.

Truisms that are approximations, that fall apart in the face of even the most mundane known realities in quantum mechanics.

the deeper you go into physics, when you get to the bottom most layers of this structure, you find that it is entirely an unknown that is argued about... and minds (and camps of idealism/groupings projected) struggle with methods of trying to test it.Trying to pry just tiny bits back and test for things they don't truly know what they mean, via methods and testing regimens that they truly don't know what they mean.

IF..one begins exploring not through the trails and texts of things that are considered to be real due to massive levels of testing, then they find some small corners that are unexplored and possibly easy to prove. Walking comfortably among the gardens you know.

To explore the unknown, one must turn the chess table around and generalize, not specialize. Narrow views produce narrow results that have narrow reach.

To change that...one should eat up all the literature they can find on anomalous results in all things. Human things, human encounters, human observations, and so on. And in that mess, one will find entire libraries worth of texts and tomes of people who have done very rigorous works in study and testing of things that seem 'out of this world'. And those groups, scientists, and people have found things that are so bizarre, to the average person -- that they can make the average person fall over and puke with fear and terror of the unknown. Yet, no fault can be found in those works of scientific exploration..

A good place to start, to find a thousand good examples of solid scientific study into anomalous situations and the edges of reality....is in Lynn McTaggart's book, 'The Field'.

For example, most folks here would think they understand electricity. But what they don't know is that there are two different forms of electromagnetic propagation. Two. The transverse wave, which is what we deal with in wires and such..but also the longitudinal waveform. and the only place that the transverse waveform appears in solidarity, is in solid lattice structures like solidus elements. Like wire (copper, aluminum,silver, etc). Outside of that , exists a combination of transverse wave AND longitudinal waveforms. And in that combination, one can get FTL or scalar waveforms and 'spooky action at a distance'.

And that proper forms of arrangement and use of those solidus materials and their singular waveforms in the transverse form...and the surrounding 'medium', which is by definition full of fields and dark matter, contain an entirely different form of complex waveforms in two forms: transverse and longitudinal. Which also have two different systems and rates of flow and propagation. Fluid, gas,and plasma... have the dual waveform/propagation systems also..free-space..remember what is said about the level of energy in one cubic meter of empty space. All rules of dimensions, energy, flow and quantum mechanics apply to the empty space.

So... in such devices as the 'gravity wheels', we are talking about complex integrations of lensing, phase and flow. This, between two different media and systems of flow and energy volatility/access, in dimensional terms. So we are talking about quantum dimensional gating and flow, as differential. Quantum mechanical.

~~~~~~

The reality is that I can't sit here and deal with all the folks (who might peruse this thread and take objection) ideas and understandings, one by one (all their but..but..but...which will be never-ending and emotionally charged and aimed squarely at me...as they work their way through it). I'd be here for a few hundred lifetimes, fighting against something that is in them, and it is turned against me. It's an ego issue, not one of logic, no matter what one might say about this as a 'challenge' in logic and knowing.

@KBK: What you just posted above made a connection in my mind between the electromagnetic superfluid in the anti-gravity engine video I posted above, and your previous liquid audio cable posts at MTBS3D.

Looking at that from this new perspective makes those discussions apparently less solid than they once seemed... :o

Anyway, I want to focus on my code now, so I will leave you guys to wrangle these issues without me... I hope great things are discovered that make the world a better place...
;)

Man, the "better than thou" levels in this thread are through the bloody roof. I'm surprised you guys even stoop so low as to communicate with us, the close minded, fearful, unenlightened fools that believe in such nonsense as the laws of thermodynamics.

"sneakypoo" wrote:
Man, the "better than thou" levels in this thread are through the bloody roof. I'm surprised you guys even stoop so low as to communicate with us, the close minded, fearful, unenlightened fools that believe in such nonsense as the laws of thermodynamics.

Just like Newtonian mechanics still hold for macroscopic things, even though they break in the quantum world, the laws of thermodynamics are valid in both our macroscopic world AND in quantum mechanics. However, as we go deeper, thermodynamics may not be valid at some (undiscovered) level.

The laws are only valid as far as we can see... And nobody is "better" than anybody else. The world is more varied and variable than we can imagine, and there is a place for each of us no matter what we choose to believe.

We are not using big words in a refusal to "stoop" to anybody. We are using big words because those are the words that are commonly used to describe the big (and tiny) concepts being discussed. The thread title contains "freak" after all, which is what opened the door to discussing freaky things...

Despite what you and others may think about this thread and the freaky ideas it contains, the important thing is to make the world a better place than you found it. All else is mostly a matter of personal taste, and such discussions are great entertainment for some (and perhaps great horror for others)... Nobody is forced to agree with (or even to read) the posts they do not like. We are each free to have our own personal beliefs, and to discuss them freely with others, within the bounds of common social acceptability.

Considering discussions of things you disagree with as "better than thou" is an awkward personal view, which in itself seems to be an attempt to force your own personal limits on those having such discussions. Even claiming to be surprised sets up a wall (or a ceiling) that need not be there. There is no need to think only within the limits you have been taught. We should not impose (or even have) such limits. To know where the center lies, you need to peer over all the edges. New discoveries may be found beyond those edges, and those of us willing to venture there can drag the best "beyond the fringe" ideas back to the center where people who like to stay close to their central comfort zone can also enjoy and extend such ideas. Staying close to home with your own familiar set of personal beliefs and "laws" does not make anybody an "unenlightened fool", but it does limit personal growth. And as new ideas drift in and become familiar, anybody can adopt them into their home (and their mind).

Fun ideas need to be discussed somewhere, and freaky thread titles (or "delete me" threads) open the door for just such things, as what you have seen in this thread so far... After Palmer posted his reply, this thread did not reach its logic conclusion, although its original purpose has been satisfied.

KBK has posted some interesting ideas and "food for thought", and it has certainly stimulated my participation in the discussion above. We have not attempted to exclude anybody. You too are welcome to participate and EXTEND this discussion. But attempts to restrict or limit it, or to shut it down will only divert the discussion and draw undesired attention to your attempts to impose your will on others.

Regarding "stooping", I try to do my part to help people who are having even the most basic of problems. This is not "stooping" to any lower level. It is just trying to make the world a better place for us all. We are all equals, and we all have things to learn, and we all have things to teach as well. Nobody needs to stoop nor bow to anybody else, and nobody needs to participate in (or even read) discussions that annoy them.

Limiting our research to the confines of what we already know is not productive, and allowing oneself to take offense at such discussions serves no useful purpose.

I've come to the conclusion that certain persons in this thread are actually simply copying random text from scientific web pages. Actually, they might even be some kind of bots...

"Charge" wrote:

"geekmaster" wrote:

"Charge" wrote:
... I'm sory, but a machine with greater than 100% efficiency does not exist as energy cannot be created. As a great man once said: "In this house we obay the laws of Thermodynamics!"

Who said it is CREATING energy? Perhaps the rotation of the planet slows a little when such a device is in use...

None of the devices linked in this thread claim to be using, or are capable of using the rotation of the earth in order to obtain a greater energy output than was seemingly put in. ... I'm not smart enough to figure out how to take energy currently making the earth go round the sun and convert it to another use while actually being on the planet though... ... I agree that we understand very little about the workings of the universe and it is unwise to predict the future, but I also think that no machine yet proposed can generate energy, and I cannot see that changing.

I envisioned stealing rotational energy that may make the days (imperceptibly) longer, not oribital energy (which may make the years longer by some tiny amount). In either case, that energy is not just created from nothingness, although from our limited point of view it would indeed appear to be perpetual.

And KBK's posts actually DID seem to imply (to me at least) an attempt to harvest rotational energy by harnessing and redirecting gravity.

And besides, gravity is only a side-effect of something bigger, and appears to "not exist", but is merely a consequence of the laws of thermodynamics:

"