Come on Palmer, freak us!

"alexanderj" wrote:
Whoaaaaa... this thread went pretty meta haha - just an observation. (And I disagree with the use of "Darkness", too obscure. Use simple human greed, instead)

This communication issue and the resulting hostility reminds me of a famous MMO that had genuinely interesting and exciting interactions between two sides when they could only speak gibberish to eachother and emote, splendidly justifying world PvP... before they allowed people to communicate and hop to either side to condemn you while you triumphantly stand over their avatar's corpse and make you feel bad... :roll:

If someone created a persistent game where people join to watch and participate in sharing ideas on a chalkboard and run physics simulations do you think the lack of guns and zombies would sink it?

Alexander, there was a talk on narcotweets I saw once. Where humans used anonymous twitter accounts to expose mexican drug cartels. People were being killed, so the stakes were high, your very life (and torture before you died). However, even with your life on the line, these narcotweeters got very upset if someone took thier tweet and reused it, or tried to take credit, they began to seek reputation, attention, in ways that would make it easier for the drug cartels to find them and execute them (and some were killed) So that says a lot about human failings and our needs. I think your idea is a great one though.

@cleverusername

This VR technology needs even more than our current bleeding edge consumer tech can give us, leaving people who are genuinely interested in the technology but unable to form tech themselves without the best experience Palmer and his team are able to put together.

As far as I know the best mobile technology is put together with many rare metals and very specific processes leaving the most efficient and able method to distribute the VR technology the method they are using right now. Open sourcing technology here would leave them vulnerable to people more interested in money and less interested in us.

I'm happy with paying a commensurate price for the most affordable model they can put together, but I understand your frustration. If it were possible I would want for nothing more than the complete sharing and use of the best combinations of known technology - I mean if the most efficient path was from A to B but it was blocked, forcing you to take a detour you are going to lose efficiency... and yeah it feels like a crime. I just don't agree with the demonization of Palmer or Oculus' strategy.

@cleverusername

lol thanks, I would greenlight it on steam if someone tried it

Alexander, I just read this on reddit:

–]floor-pi 4 points 9 hours ago*
Have I got my Oculus VR history wrong or is this not a little inaccurate
A virtual reality headset dreamt up by Gaikai veteran Brendan Iribe..

Plus, how come Palmer isn't mentioned once in the article? Is this something that happens through funding rounds, because of the need to suggest credibility through experience? Maybe i'm missing the mark here, but it made the article feel awkward, seeing as the story of the Rift is known to probably a majority of dev-kit owners, and seeing how the innovative start has pretty much become a part of VR lore.

TC also didn't even get the company name correct.

Edit: Having read a whole lot of other articles which he also isn't mentioned in, i'm guessing that Iribe taking focus is either some condition of the funding, or else it's just a side-effect of whatever way this round of PR has worked. Either way, it seems silly to me. The quintessence of the Rift (imo) is the weird and great collaboration between a talented young hacker and a few industry superstars (mostly Carmack), creating a disruptive innovation that probably wouldn't have happened any time soon otherwise, with the potential of up-ending several industries. It's caused a level of community excitement that I don't think i've ever seen in my 30 years for a (at this point) niche tech product, and I hope they continue to foster it without corporatising themselves too soon. I'm sure they know well what they're doing anyway..

Now a long time ago at a board now defunct called oculushub, I posted an article I found where they interviewed Iribe, and there was NO mention of Palmer. I titled the article "palmer who?" trying to show Palmer, that just like he tried to write me out of his history, that it seemed to me Iribe was trying to write him out as well. The article was fascinating though because Iribe admitted to the reporter that they had used kickstarter and pimped it out for PURELY marketing reasons, that they didn't need the money (sure they didn't Iribe was rich off Gaikai selling to sony after fugging over the guy who developed the apple video codec), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perlman (Where iribe fugged this guy over at Onlive) this violates all kinds of ethical concerns from my perspective, for you see Alexander, when Palmer walked out on that stage with abrash and carmack and said he found eric howlett info and came up with the idea I knew he was lying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gaqQdyfAz8

Now Alexander, you seem to say I am demonizing Palmer, so what do you think if you go back to this original thread?

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4123&start=0 - i was martinlandau over there:

martinlandau: They are expensive commercially, but you can do a DIY solution for cheap. You just get another monitor exactly like the one you got now and a special mirror and VOILA! Also Palmer, check out the leep VR full FOV HMD just for fun

palmer: I am looking into that LEEP VR thing... I lack practical 3d knowledge, but I have above average understanding of LCDs and modifying them, I was one of the first people to make a backlit gameboy pocket LCD, actually:

martinlandau: You go Palmer! Build the future! ;) The planar stuff can be done side by side with your nose up to the glass, but that sucks. What I saw at siggraph you have top and bottom monitors with the glass aligned that way, much better and cooler and much more ergonomic! If the iz3d monitor hadn't been so cheap, I may have went that way. Palmer where do you live? You get something together similar to that leep vr and do a full FOV HMD and I think you can make yourself a lot of money with people here willing to buy. I think leep wanted 10K or so, but maybe if you can get it down to 2K or so you may have many buyers.

palmer: I have found some good links, but I am not sure if they are the ones you were talking about. Would you mind direct linking me to them? :oops: I live in Southern California, USA. (Pay attention to this alexander, he couldn't find the info, even after I gave him the search terms to help him, he came back asking for more help)

martinlandau: Palmer start here http://www.leepvr.com/index.php http://www.leepvr.com/38comparison.html
Why full FOV is as important as stereoscopic 3d for our gaming experience. http://www.leepvr.com/12periphery.html
In fact just read all the links there, should learn a lot. (Alexander, I was later at the National Defense Universtiry for a federal consortium of virtual worlds conference, david smith was there of "the colony" fame, those links had been removed by alex howlett (since restored) and were no longer there to be found at that time because I was trying to show them to David and some other people at the pentagon, but Palmer tells everyone he would have found them wether I lived or died)

Palmer: @Martin: Been reading through the LeepVR site, TONS of good info in there, wish they would get back into the game.

So that is how innovation happens Alexander, someone gets some help, gets pointed to some info, is given some ideas, and he walks on stage with abrash and carmack at the virtual insanity panel and admits that eric howlett info was critical and the key to everything, but then I get kicked off the forums because Neil breaks and NDA with paramount. Chomp on that MS Pacman. People say I am mean, I am an asshole, I am being a prick, I am demonizing Palmer, and am now a mosquito who needs to stop being annoying or I am going to get swatted, so I don't want to be swatted. The same forces inside of human beings that allowed Palmer to lie like he did, will also be played out on him (as I believe Iribe has already tried to do - and if/when other VR goodness comes about, perhaps Sony, Palmer and Oculus are long forgotten, but then Palmer and I will maybe be in the same boat, and the sadness I feel that he wanted to write me out of his history, he may empathize and we can be better friends than we are now) But as Zalo said, me with a couple million, and him now up there in 100 million dollar range rolling with the iribes and andreesons while I do volunteer work for veterans probably aint ever gonna put us into the same circles ever again) LOL! Lets not forget Tone either http://vrtifacts.com/hmds/leep-on-the-cheap/ And Okta and Cyberreality were there at the start too. I miss Cyber the most.


As KBK said in a very eloquent post I read of his over at MTBS3D, everyone wants a hero, and this world may destroy you if you try to fugg with their perception of history or reality, I just watched that hunger games movie, that kid who was catness's "fake" love, just a tool, manipulated by more powerful forces, to try and keep things controlled, I kinda think Palmer is like that guy and I feel pity for him, not hate.

@cleverusername

Sounds like this is all very personal. I don't think I can accurately judge fault or selfishness of anyone here, but it is obvious that it is the persistence of everyone collectively that got it this far. Honestly, I feel all knowledge is cumulative. I come here and places like it to read and understand what I don't already... and if I ever do create something fantastic I couldn't cite a tenth of what got me this far if my life depended on it, haha...

"alexanderj" wrote:

If someone created a persistent game where people join to watch and participate in sharing ideas on a chalkboard and run physics simulations do you think the lack of guns and zombies would sink it?

Usually does.

as for personal and what not:

I like to think of clever being a bit like me, before I learned to pare my posts down to less than 10,000 words.

Clever, a word of advice. If a woman asks you 'does this make my ass look big?', no matter what you say...keep it short, disinterested and LIE. OK?

The other important thing, is that if you put it out there, you don't own it anymore. That's the way it works, both public and private.

I have my NDA's at hand and I will use them before I speak about anything. The greasy and sugar-needy jiggly pinkish-grey bits in my skull are my bread and butter, so I don't give it away. Let me re-phrase that: most stuff I give away (most of it the best stuff), but I keep a tiny corner for myself, to try and stop myself from starving to death.

Long chain nanotubes? I think I can do that one. Needs some 'spermentin though.

"alexanderj" wrote:
@cleverusername

Sounds like this is all very personal. I don't think I can accurately judge fault or selfishness of anyone here, but it is obvious that it is the persistence of everyone collectively that got it this far. Honestly, I feel all knowledge is cumulative. I come here and places like it to read and understand what I don't already... and if I ever do create something fantastic I couldn't cite a tenth of what got me this far if my life depended on it, haha...

Its like les Johnson and the NASA scientist said about nano tubes, everyone was sharing at first. Imagine palmer, carmack, Sony and Jeri of castar, all sharing now instead of competing - without nda's patents etc. It seems to me things would be better. The current way economies work seem like such a hindrance. When we all work together what can't we achieve? When carmacks can't do asteroid defenses though because of evil or greed in other companies/nations maybe we all die like the dinosaurs

"KBK" wrote:

"alexanderj" wrote:

If someone created a persistent game where people join to watch and participate in sharing ideas on a chalkboard and run physics simulations do you think the lack of guns and zombies would sink it?

Usually does.

as for personal and what not:

I like to think of clever being a bit like me, before I learned to pare my posts down to less than 10,000 words.

Clever, a word of advice. If a woman asks you 'does this make my ass look big?', no matter what you say...keep it short, disinterested and LIE. OK?

The other important thing, is that if you put it out there, you don't own it anymore. That's the way it works, both public and private.

I have my NDA's at hand and I will use them before I speak about anything. The greasy and sugar-needy jiggly pinkish-grey bits in my skull are my bread and butter, so I don't give it away. Let me re-phrase that: most stuff I give away (most of it the best stuff), but I keep a tiny corner for myself, to try and stop myself from starving to death.

Long chain nanotubes? I think I can do that one. Needs some 'spermentin though.

.

Kbk I always told the truth. No baby you don't look fat next to Roseanne but u ain't no Megan fox. She left me and now I have time to read you and geek. Hey with obamacare and food stamps u don't need nda's. I hate those. The NDA Neil broke cost me being on mtbs3d and further time w palmer, cyber, Yuri, OKTA etc I want a society where ndas patents etc stop hurting us and have power over us. I wanted palmer and anyone to have anything I could share. I am not after money or fame, have too much now. Just want to stop tyranny and failed economic models. Those brilliant ideas u have in your head, god forbid u die, I hope u have them written down somewhere so the rest of us can benefit and u don't take them to the grave. Think of the genius ideas Reisse can no longer share. Please have a succession plan kbk!

This whole thread, minus the relevant questions and Oculus Rift discussion and response from Palmer... What the @#$%!? Why isn't this locked or cleaned up? I just am blown away at how off topic this thread is.

"TWhite" wrote:
This whole thread, minus the relevant questions and Oculus Rift discussion and response from Palmer... What the @#$%!? Why isn't this locked or cleaned up? I just am blown away at how off topic this thread is.

Come on, get back to the topic of "Come on Palmer, freak us"


Mike