Inspiring

Question

We have to stop associating all VR with motion controls...

168 replies
22734 views

Things I see Vive-owners saying on social media on a near-daily basis:

"The Vive is the only real VR because it has motion controls!"

"Without motion controls, VR is just a monitor on your face"

"Why would I play this game if it doesn't have motion controls in it?"

"This game is incredible because motion controls! (no other reason given)"

"You can't get immersion without motion controls."

"I'll buy anything with motion controls in it!"

Things I see my fellow Rifters saying here:

"Oh yeah well the Rift WILL be the best AFTER we get motion controls!"

"These games are fun I guess but they'd be better if they used Touch"

"Every game I want to see in the future involves motion controls."

Things I remember Wii-owners saying:

"I can't wait until the Wii comes out, motion controls are going to revolutionize gaming!"

"Oh wow, Wii Sports is the most incredible game I've ever played! Motion controls, yay!"

"Huh... motion controls sure got old fast. All these developers just shoe-horned them in unnecessarily thinking we'd buy anything involving the wii-mote, instead of actually making the games good."

"All these motion-control games are the same. I'm not buying any more."

"How much store credit can I get for this Wii? You say you're already overstocked?"

This pattern worries me. Thanks to the Vive craze, a LOT of people are now looking at VR headsets as just an accessory TO motion control gaming, rather than the other way around. So what's going to happen to VR after everyone inevitably gets bored of motion controls again? Will the VR platforms thrive even after people become jaded with motion controls? Wil people jump ship from the Vive to the Rift, because we have content that doesn't rely entirely on motion controls to be fun? Or will they just conclude that all VR was a fad?

Or will motion controls actually survive past the "novelty" stage this time around? Will developers have learned from the Wii's short time in the lime-light (and the utter failure of Kinect) and actually go to the effort of making GOOD games that just happen to involve motion controls, or will they flood the VR platforms with glorified tech demos and half-assed shovelware that rely entirely on the novelty of motion controls, after seeing how easily impressed consumers are with such content on the Vive?

Believe me, I'm as eager as the rest of you to get my hands on Touch, but much like the people raving about the Vive now, and everyone hyped for the Wii when it first came out, this excitement is based on what could potentially be rather than anything we know for sure. The future of the entire VR industry shouldn't rely on whether our expectations for motion controls are met, because then if motion controls prove to be a short-lived novelty, VR would die with them. People need to see that VR is amazing with OR without motion controls, so that it will survive even if that proves to be a fad.

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Expt626

Up and Coming

True VR is when you have the freedom to fly around in VR and yet still be lying down in reality i.e. SAO.

Roomscale imo is just a gimmick. The kind of game you can play with roomscale is just too limited.

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pjenness

Inspiring

I think a lot of comments are being made WAY too soon. We are on the first step of VR.

"VR needs this and this else is not VR", "true VR is this and this" is naive. Every half decent I play on rift adds another level or idea in a VR context.
Lucky Tale had no tracker hand controller, just head HMD . Yet I was taken to another world.
Chronos is similar. Both and many others have "wow" moments.

Altspace has very little activity, but just chatting and hanging with other real people is a fun new concept evolving.
vtalk I sit with a bunch of 4 people..nothing tracked yet artificial motion on the other player as they talk makes me believe Im talking to someone more believable.....they are all Virtual Reality, even though implemented differently

The one Im working on has animated avatars. It is believable, even without motion controls, because what you see happening looks real. Even if the the person on the other end is not performing that action. Ie..they pressed jump and run, yet they are sitting on their bed eating cheetos and drinking a beer.

From what I understand Zenbane is saying, is people keep making hard these fast statements on a technology that is in its infancy, as if its already in its final stages. Even with 1 year of the current technology, it is the hands of developers and their imagination of what to create that will change the VR landscape..not just new hardware.

Room space is obviously no gimmick, but also doesnt define true VR, or limit VR, its just another format of VR. It may not have a huge range of applications yet, but developers will be working on it. Same as for CV1 as is and with touch . Both have amazing potential for VR.

I think the imagination of developers of HOW they use the available systems is far more important than more and more new hardware.
Adding touch wont really make a current game much better. But an imaginative team of Devs working with the current tools will. Once touch arrives, it allows another wave of development and imagination.

To me I think people should just enjoy the ride. Every thing is coming, and there will be surprises no body even sees coming from a crazy dev that had a kool idea, and blows all our minds with something. Dont be hung upon what you think makes VR VR, just enjoy the current round of entertainment. Always looking at the horizon you'll miss whats around you.

-P

Drift VFX Visual, Virtual , Vertical Want 970GTX on Macbook for good FPS? https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=17349

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w1dg3t

Inspiring

ok i have thought about it and we need to redesign a human gyroscope,

It has to be affordable, and tracking sensors in side of all cirlces. A body harness will insure free movement of arms and head. The feet can strap in to something like a step machine for resistance. motorsytem to config with pc to simulate movment in vr world like flying, diving ect. inovators can decide what hand controls to use with each game. tracking gloves, guns, touch controllers. Even the gyro bars the women is holding onto can be worked into some kind of control. I bet you could make one that fits in a room in your house.
i see this as an alternative to full room tracking instead it would be full body tracking with benifits.

If you want full room tracking you might want to start thinking about combining spacial mapping this would probably work alot better. Camera on the headset?

Expt626
"True VR is when you have the freedom to fly around in VR and yet still be lying down in reality"

Are you talking about hacking straight into the nervous system and lie to your brain. im going to need a body upgrade for this. Or are we going straight in through the eyes in a kinda hypnosis deal. Now we are on the subject of hypnosis i bet you could hypnotise someone really easily using vr as you have control of everything they see.actually that could totally add to the immersion of game play you would become the character in a sense. Say before the game starts you would go through a hypnotic rountine thats sets you in character mode.

Expt626 you are genius

Dream over

Thanks

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Anonymous

@pjenness you make some good points, but I dont think it's too soon to say some things about VR. While everything I express, and the others (not you) may get thier fan boy panties in a bunch I feel I have been around VR for some time and have some solid input.

Beginning in 2013, I was blown away when I got my Oculus DK1, everything it could acheive was amazing and for once, I felt I could say, wow so this is what VR will be like...once it gets better.

Then I received my DK2 in 2014, the first day it was released. Wow this is cool, not that much better visually but this posoitional tracking helps a lot, I can actually lean in a view objects up close, and lean around corners... Omg CV1 will finally be true VR when it comes out.

Then I got the the Gear VR... Ok ok, this is different, im mobile, but ughh no positinal tracking, starting to go backwards here in VR tech, resolution is nice, but still way to blurry, but man this thing is excellent for VR porn! CV1 is gonna be great!

So in the meantime Vive was developing, but who cares nothing will match CV1. So I receive my CV1, oh here we go! Finally true VR. Wow, so this is it? It's like a suped up DK2... Ok but the headphones, but ive had headphones before.. Ok but the resolution, ok its nicer but I still see pixels, nothing amazing, let's try some awesome new CV1 content... Well those were nice, but it all FEELS exactly the same as my DK2. Hmm....this Vive seems way different, glad I ordered one, hope it's good.

And ever since I got my Vive I knew EXACTLY why I love it. Tracked controllers, room scale, more unique features, and content that has already eaten up my time. I am not a Vive fanboy I am a VR tech fanboy, if LG came out with new tech that did more than the Vive I would just buy theirs and go with the better experience. If Touch ends up massively outperforming Vives tracking controllers, I will probably invest back into the CV1, or CV2.

For useres that have only experienced CV1, I can see them in pure awe, and saying how great it is (which the CV1 is), but maybe over time they will see why VR can be more immersive with more hardware, like Touch, and more space, and see how much that helps VR become closer to the classic VR weve always dreamed of as a kid.

So even though VR can be considred 'new', I have gone through a few iterations of it and feel I can give a pretty good reason to what makes VR more compelling or what other additions it needs; but again this is just my opinion, and that is why we are here, discussing ideas, pros,cons, and passing along our experiences. In the end, I just want VR to keep evolving quickly with more and more features, I am such a junkie for it.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

tranceology3 said:

@pjenness you make some good points, but I dont think it's too soon to say some things about VR.

It's not too soon to say some things, true; but there will never be a time where the things you say really make sense. You can call people who disagree with you, "fanboys," if it helps make you feel better about fighting that uphill battle of yours; but the truth is that your arguments don't match the "VR resume" you just tried to type up.

You have made it very clear that you think Virtual Reality is about the body, instead of the mind. Anyone who understands what VR has been trying to achieve since its recorded conception in the late 1930's realizes that you are very much wrong.

I already posted links showing the VR industry that is going far beyond video games and entertainment; all centered around the "mind." There are a lot of facts you willfully ignore.

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Anonymous

Well I guess we can define the big picture of what VR is or needs, differently @zenbane, you can think of it however you want; but with the current tech that is out, I enjoy tracking controllers, room scale, and the content for those types of hardware much better than the alternative, and I know this because I have reassured myself by giving a good amount of time with those other products; unlike some people who shun away different kinds of tech (by trying to make up insignificant negatives towards it), or who are true fanboys and automatically ignore the competitor - it's sorta a technology prejudice.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

Your actions still don't match your words considering you are only "saying" that you prefer room-scale and tracked controllers... all the while you remain active on a forum that isn't impressed with either of those gimmicks; and you've been here since 2013 lol

I don't think you understand the VR industry enough, from a technological nor biological standpoint, to properly identify a true prejudice. However, there is a fun contradiction with your preferences of physical immersion over mental immersion and your forum name, "tranceology."

trance:
a half-conscious state characterized by an absence of response to
external stimuli, typically as induced by hypnosis or entered by a
medium.

You name yourself after a mental state that maintains an absence of external stimuli while arguing the exact opposite in a virtual reality debate. I guess you were being ironic when you came up for your forum handle. Bravo.

I'm also not just "thinking of VR however I want," I am showing how people around the world are starting up new businesses based on the same mind-based approach to VR. You just prefer to limit your scope to the parts that let you type up your biased viewpoints.

Call me a fanboy to your hearts content, I will continue to enjoy pointing out your errors and contradictions >:)

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Anonymous

Did you really just take my username into this conversation? That is a desperate attempt to validate whatever point you are trying to make. And to totally wreck your cute little rant about my name, trance in my name refers to the music, I am a musician and write trance music, it is a username I have used for many years - but good effort fitting that in your argument, though you were WAY off. But enough, let's keep our conversations focused on the topic. No one cares about your thoughts about my username.

Zenbane

Honored Contributor

I'm pretty sure your repeated attempts to label people who disagree with you as "fanboys" is much more a desperate attempt to validate yourself.

Trance music is all about the mind as well; it was not named "trance" arbitrarily. Knowing that you try to create this type of music, name yourself after it, and then argue for external stimuli in a Virtual Reality debate makes the contradiction that much more valid, and hilarious.

Although I think I can see the connection... you are confusing the Vive Wands for "glow sticks" lol

ComicBookGuy

Inspiring

I learned from Zenbane on day one that actual insults get you a warning and it's better to hide behind veiled insults.

Ignore him trance. He practically lives here on the forum.

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